Black families are to blame for this one...

Bake n Shark

Gangsta Boogie
Rural area vs Urban area - different environment, different dynamics.

You need to stop with the excuses for real. The question is why are black kids killing each other... and other people in higher numbers than whites. Some suggest a pathology more unique to blacks... you say no, is poverty and lack of opportunities.

Point out that whites suffer from similar, if not greater poverty and lack of opportunity... you trying to shift the goalposts to say that the "dynamics" of urban/exurban areas are different. So blacks kids are committing murders because they live in urban areas now... that's your latest excuse? You think there aren't poor white kids in urban areas too? steups


Please, Indians do not dominate in shcolarship awards or results (which are published).

Or are you tying to say only Indians attend the so-called 'prestige schools'? That is faaaaaar from true. Everybody always so quick to down-cry.
thanks for telling me that the scholarship results are published Sherlock... how do you think I'm able to say that Indian names dominate the list? Perennially the top names are East Indian names... and honestly while I've never sat down and counted who seemed Indian from who didn't, from appearances there certainly seemed like Indians was the most represented ethnic demographic.

I never said anything about Indians being the only ones to attend 'prestige' schools... that is a figment of your over-active imagination.

As for this nonsense "down-cry" talk... who's 'down-crying' anything? Now you just talking emotional nonsense.
 

BacchanalDiva

Registered User
What about poverty, a lack of education and a lack of opportunities?

Don't act as though white families or white children are inately better.

You know how many of them I've met, from the 'best' families (meaning social class) and they're doing drugs I've never even heard of. Not to mention smoking marijuana like is water they're drinking.
It doesn't even make sense to bring that into the conversation. I grew up w/ upper middle class to rich white kids and when we reached high school some of them went the wrong way, drugs, promiscuity and even crime. Big difference in those kinda cases is that their parents have the resources to put them in private rehabs and endless therapy. Most often they clean up and go onto higher education or even if they don't, they have a relative to get them some job, into the fire dept or something so. Blacks for the most part don't have those resources and opportunities thrown at them so black parents from start to finish need to make their kids strive for excellence and keep them on the right side of the law 'cause its a lot harder for ours to come back once they go astray.
 
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Toppa_Toppa

Guest
You need to stop with the excuses for real. The question is why are black kids killing each other... and other people in higher numbers than whites. Some suggest a pathology more unique to blacks... you say no, is poverty and lack of opportunities.

Point out that whites suffer from similar, if not greater poverty and lack of opportunity... you trying to shift the goalposts to say that the "dynamics" of urban/exurban areas are different. So blacks kids are committing murders because they live in urban areas now... that's your latest excuse? You think there aren't poor white kids in urban areas too? steups

Right, because it's much more feasible that there's some kind of 'pathology' amongst Blacks, right? So why arent middle class Blacks killing each other at the same rate? Pathology unique to Blacks, stfu. I gues it's also unique to those Hispanic gangs who can't stop killing each other either, right? Or the Italian gangs of old. Oh wait, that would mean that the killing 'pathology' isn't unique to Blacks at all.

Furthermore, it is a lie that Whites suffe from the same level of poverty or lack of opportunities - we cannot go with raw numbers here, we have to go with proportionality. Proportionally speaking, Blacks are at a sever disadvantage when compared to whites. To argue otherwise is just foolish.

Thirdly, setting is very important because as I hope you would know, there are many, many Blacks living below the poverty line in rural areas and the murder-rate is no where as high as in the urban areas. Urban areas always experience a higher rate of crime. This is common sense.
 

BacchanalDiva

Registered User
What opportunities are available to them? I am by no means trying to exonerate murder, but there can be no comparison between Black and Whites in the US because the social variables are very different. How many Blacks have a HS education compared to whites...what about the quality of education which would affect whether or not they were 'college' material...how many of them live below the poverty line compared to Whites, how many of them live in communities with very little resources and opportunity. Clearly one group is much more disadvantaged than the other so any comparison between the two is just unfair.

You think that all the people killing in Laventille doing it because they're Black? What about the many other Blacks in Trinidad who are doing very well and not involved in illegal activities?
What you're saying is true but poverty cant explain it all. How is it that long time in trinidad there were poor ppl that were content and happy...took good care of what little they had, saved their pennies and brought up great children that became better off and in turn made the rest of their parent's lives easier? Why does poverty now equal dirt, violence, ignorance and crime? There are a lot more social issues at play than unemployment and income level.
 

VINCYPOWA

Registered Member
No arguments here. But gladly many are now proven wrong.
Well, that was the STATE of a NATION and of a PEOPLE, thus SUPPORTING my POSITION of a BROKEN SPIRIT of a PEOPLE.

Many N'awlinians are rebuilding. I've seen it with my own two eyes. (not all but many are rebuilding).
GOOD NEWS, but the IMAGE and IMPACT will not DIE overnight.

But Rwandans are picking up the pieces the best way they can. Just ask a Rwandan...I did.
But the IMAGE and IMPACT will not DIE overnight, thus the LOW EXPECTATION that anything is going to be done in DARFUR.

Ummm is that influence ONLY from outside the community or is it still being perpetuated by those within? Chew on that.
There is NOTHING to CHEW on because the INFLUENCE came from OUTSIDE and is being PERPETRATED from within. Again, the SPIRIT of a people has been BROKEN.

? That didn't stop people like OPrah from getting her billions the honest way. The rich minority is falling one by one. I know you read the papers.
The EXCEPTIONS are NOT the NORM in de COMMUNITY, thus the SPIRIT of a people continue to be BROKEN.

So we should sit on our laurels and wait for the goods to come to us? Come on how do you think we got this far in life to begin with? WORK and HARD WORK! Yes, we - including POTUS #44 have to work 2ice, 3ice as hard as whitey but so what! We work, we want something good in our lives, we WORK. That's why people are still boggled by the Obama campagin, it had NOTHING to do with the good ol' boy methods, it happened because Obama knows he has to work (in his case) 4 times as hard as his competition. He knew he couldn't run his campaign and the USA the same as any good ol' boy who has been in the White House before him. We have to work hard so what, that only shows how strong we are as a people, we are strong enough to fight against the "machines" but for some reason we lost that sense and just throw up our hands and say "I give up" which makes no sense to me. Our people have perservered through WORSE and this generation has gotten SORF!
HAVE YOU EVER seen a PERSON that has to WORK 3ICE as HARD as his or her COUNTERPART only to be getting the same PAY? Yeah gyel, dat go BREAK yuh SPIRIT yes.
Ah go KEEP HOPE ALIVE that THINGS will CHANGE in AMERIKKA when DA ONE gets to the BIG HOUSE.
 
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Toppa_Toppa

Guest
It doesn't even make sense to bring that into the conversation. I grew up w/ upper middle class to rich white kids and when we reached high school some of them went the wrong way, drugs, promiscuity and even crime. Big difference in those kinda cases is that their parents have the resources to put them in private rehabs and endless therapy. Most often they clean up and go onto higher education or even if they don't, they have a relative to get them some job, into the fire dept or something so. Blacks for the most part don't have those resources and opportunities thrown at them so black parents from start to finish need to make their kids strive for excellence and keep them on the right side of the law 'cause its a lot harder for ours to come back once they go astray.
That was my point. But we have people talking about a 'pathology' of Blacks.
 

BacchanalDiva

Registered User
BLAME WHITEY and BLACK WOMEN who opened their LEGS, knowing that de MAN that is about to GET them PREGNANT will be NOWEHRE to be FOUND when she GETS the RESULT of the PREGNANCY TEST.
I blame those black women and the good for nuttin black men that siring those children and walking away. I also blame this screwed up society and all forms of media.
 
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Toppa_Toppa

Guest
What you're saying is true but poverty cant explain it all. How is it that long time in trinidad there were poor ppl that were content and happy...took good care of what little they had, saved their pennies and brought up great children that became better off and in turn made the rest of their parent's lives easier? Why does poverty now equal dirt, violence, ignorance and crime? There are a lot more social issues at play than unemployment and income level.
Right, that's where environment and exposure comes into play.
 

Shandy 2.0

God is my pilot
HAVE YOU EVER seen a PERSON that has to WORK 3ICE as HARD as his or her COUNTERPART only to be getting the same PAY? Yeah gyel, dat go BREAK yuh SPIRIT yes.
DUH! I'm one of them, as many of us here. I don't know about you but my spirit is just fine, because I know I will move on and benefit from my labour!



I'm done. You're making me work 4 times as hard. LOL
 

PTM

Stolen from Africa
It doesn't even make sense to bring that into the conversation. I grew up w/ upper middle class to rich white kids and when we reached high school some of them went the wrong way, drugs, promiscuity and even crime. Big difference in those kinda cases is that their parents have the resources to put them in private rehabs and endless therapy. Most often they clean up and go onto higher education or even if they don't, they have a relative to get them some job, into the fire dept or something so. Blacks for the most part don't have those resources and opportunities thrown at them so black parents from start to finish need to make their kids strive for excellence and keep them on the right side of the law 'cause its a lot harder for ours to come back once they go astray.
I have to agree with you on this one. Those white kids most often than not straighten themselves out by the time they are in their mid 20’s. They have a lot more of the resources that are needed for this transition.

I see the problem, but I’m at a point where I’m frustrated and fed up. I don’t know how to begin to tackle the problem beyond principles my grandparents taught me: stay in school, get good grades, stay out of trouble, and don’t have children you can’t support.

Earlier in the thread, Bakes suggested something to the effect that the root causes of all these negative social behaviours by our youth maybe due to a set of combined factors which are unique to the Black experience. How do we isolate these factors so that we can deal with them, or do we have to come up with a set of unique radical solutions that have yet to be tried?
 

BacchanalDiva

Registered User
You're hopeless.

Before the Civil Rights era, what was the social structure like for Black Americans? When did they earn the right to vote? Or access to proper schools, or even jobs? Do you think that centuries of being disadvantaged can be miraculously earased in 30-40 years? Do you know how hard it is to get out of poverty? That it usually takes an exceptional individual? Exceptionally bright or ambitious to overcome these deeply embedded social structures.

As I said, if it were as easy as some would like to paint it, there wouldn't be a problem in the first place. Keep on believing in your fantasy.
I dunno Toppa, despite the fact that the african american story is such a horrific one, there were many other peoples that were held down and discriminated against, many others that started w/ nothing but throught smart economics, tight knit community and education they forced the boys club to give them respect no matter how grudgingly. They TOOK theirs. What really wrong w/ black ppl?
 

BacchanalDiva

Registered User
Well the obvious answer would be improving the opporunities/options via better quality of education, investing more resources into the neighbourhoods by the powers that be to improve the general prospects.
Again, no one did all that for any of the other minority groups in this country and yet they are thriving. Whats wrong w/ black ppl that they can't make the system work for them?
 
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Toppa_Toppa

Guest
Again, no one did all that for any of the other minority groups in this country and yet they are thriving. Whats wrong w/ black ppl that they can't make the system work for them?
Which other minority groups are thriving? You mean the Asians? They came as voluntary immigrants, with a very ambitous mentality. They were never subjugated and oppressed in the US for generations upon generations, excluded from almost all facet of society. As a matter of fact, the only thing that was left for American Blacks to thrive on was crime. That cannot just be erased in one generation - it was too deely embedded. I'm the last person to defend laziness or a lack of ambition in individuals, but people cannot just ignore the very real social factors that affect the group as a whole.
 

BacchanalDiva

Registered User
I have to agree with you on this one. Those white kids most often than not straighten themselves out by the time they are in their mid 20’s. They have a lot more of the resources that are needed for this transition.

I see the problem, but I’m at a point where I’m frustrated and fed up. I don’t know how to begin to tackle the problem beyond principles my grandparents taught me: stay in school, get good grades, stay out of trouble, and don’t have children you can’t support.

Earlier in the thread, Bakes suggested something to the effect that the root causes of all these negative social behaviours by our youth maybe due to a set of combined factors which are unique to the Black experience. How do we isolate these factors so that we can deal with them, or do we have to come up with a set of unique radical solutions that have yet to be tried?

I don't find that its so complicated. Those things your grandparents taught you are completely correct. Its nothing but mindset..its that mindset that separates the many blacks that came out of the PJs (figuratively) to be docs, lawyers, execs or whatever else today. Its the mindset to be able to look around at the fools on the block and know that's not what you want for yourself and striving for the opposite both for yourself and for your kids. As for the kids, as parents we know what we need to do, what we need to provide in order to give our children that mindset. They say tho that you make the child not the mind so if after all that the child chooses the "other mindset" not really anything a parent can do but pray.
 

BacchanalDiva

Registered User
Which other minority groups are thriving? You mean the Asians? They came as voluntary immigrants, with a very ambitous mentality. They were never subjugated and oppressed in the US for generations upon generations, excluded from almost all facet of society. As a matter of fact, the only thing that was left for American Blacks to thrive on was crime. That cannot just be erased in one generation - it was too deely embedded. I'm the last person to defend laziness or a lack of ambition in individuals, but people cannot just ignore the very real social factors that affect the group as a whole.
I too lazy to go look for one of them signs that read "not dogs or chinese" but you know that's not true. Just about every non "aryan", protestant group that came to this country was treated like shyt and lived on the fringe of society until the 70's.
 

BacchanalDiva

Registered User
Which other minority groups are thriving? You mean the Asians? They came as voluntary immigrants, with a very ambitous mentality. They were never subjugated and oppressed in the US for generations upon generations, excluded from almost all facet of society. As a matter of fact, the only thing that was left for American Blacks to thrive on was crime. That cannot just be erased in one generation - it was too deely embedded. I'm the last person to defend laziness or a lack of ambition in individuals, but people cannot just ignore the very real social factors that affect the group as a whole.
I had to come back and say, I think its anything but ignored. Its been analyzed and talked about and debated, its been the basis of speeches and federal policy. I guess I feel like ok, we all know but enough already. Given all that we know, we know we're not going to be handed a thing...what we have was fought for. So stop talking and uplift yuh blasted self already (not you of course lol)
 
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Toppa_Toppa

Guest
I too lazy to go look for one of them signs that read "not dogs or chinese" but you know that's not true. Just about every non "aryan", protestant group that came to this country was treated like shyt and lived on the fringe of society until the 70's.
At the same level of African Americans? Not by a long shot. Not to mention the fact that every group that came, including West Indians, looked down on African Americans just as much.
 
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Toppa_Toppa

Guest
I had to come back and say, I think its anything but ignored. Its been analyzed and talked about and debated, its been the basis of speeches and federal policy. I guess I feel like ok, we all know but enough already. Given all that we know, we know we're not going to be handed a thing...what we have was fought for. So stop talking and uplift yuh blasted self already (not you of course lol)

I agree, but it's impossible to expect that this will actually happen today for tomorrow.
 

Bake n Shark

Gangsta Boogie
Right, because it's much more feasible that there's some kind of 'pathology' amongst Blacks, right?

Whoever said that "there's some kind of 'pathology' amongst Blacks"?? I said that some suggest this as a possibility, nowhere did I say that it conculsively is true. If you take a moment to read and comprehend instead of being the emotive jackass that you love morphing into then maybe that would sink in.

Besides... the notion of A pathology particular to blacks isn't as far-fetched as you're making it sound. IF there are factors which affect blacks in ways unique (as compared to whites) then that would give rise to a pathological mindset particular to blacks. It really isn't complicated.


So why arent middle class Blacks killing each other at the same rate?

Why aren't poverty-stricken whites not killing each other at the same rate? Don't try and ignore question. Many middle-class blacks are engaged in activities that keep them out of harm's way... simply put. Extra-curricular activities and greater structure in their homes and their lives help minimize the risk of their exposure to crime, be it as perpetrators or as victims. A related fact is that EVEN in middle-class families where poverty isn't much of a factor you find those kids getting caught up in criminality.

Poverty alone isn't responsible for the growth of gang activity in suburban Los Angeles where the vast majority of black families are middle class. I can cite a number of personal testimonies from well-known (and some not so well-known) personalities who testify that it wasn't poverty but peer pressure (among other things) which pulled them into gang life. No one will discount the fact that poverty plays a role in exacerbating crime rates but poverty alone cannot account for the criminal mindset, that's not even an argument worth debating you on.


Pathology unique to Blacks, stfu. I gues it's also unique to those Hispanic gangs who can't stop killing each other either, right? Or the Italian gangs of old. Oh wait, that would mean that the killing 'pathology' isn't unique to Blacks at all.

I never said that 'pathology' in general... or "the killing 'pathology' " as you call it was particular to blacks. Take your head out your ass, clear your eyes and learn to read.

Furthermore, it is a lie that Whites suffe from the same level of poverty or lack of opportunities - we cannot go with raw numbers here, we have to go with proportionality. Proportionally speaking, Blacks are at a sever disadvantage when compared to whites. To argue otherwise is just foolish.

This is just foolishness.

Because we know that regardless the disparities in numbers that white INDIVIDUALS aren't immune to the same problems and social maladies that afflict black people. As a community the effects may not be as profound on whites as it is on the black community because of the proportionality that you refer to... but the question isn't "why doesn't the white community kill" the question is "why don't white youths (INDIVIDUALS) kill at a proportional rate compared to blacks. The 'proportionality' is already accounted for since no one is talking raw numbers.


Thirdly, setting is very important because as I hope you would know, there are many, many Blacks living below the poverty line in rural areas and the murder-rate is no where as high as in the urban areas. Urban areas always experience a higher rate of crime. This is common sense.

Of course crime rates are greater in urban areas you dumbass... there are more people living in urban areas. Sheer probability would indicate that with a higher population count there is a heightened chances that more individuals would either be perpetrators of or victims of crime. But we're not talking sheer numbers as you happily mention then conveniently forget. We're talking proportionality... so even where there's a lower incidence of crime overall (suburban/exurban areas) you still don't see as many youths whites involved in violent crimes as do their black counterparts.
 
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