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Old 05-02-2008, 01:57 PM   #1 (permalink)
Jamaican Su'Flan
 
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Lightbulb Who brought the slaves to America...

http://www.iamthewitness.com/books/W...to.America.htm

Very good essay to read with links to the references . Here is a small passage which gives you an idea:

Columbus was accompanied by five 'maranos' (Jews who had foresworn their religion and supposedly became Catholics), Luis de Torres, interpreter, Marco, the surgeon, Bemal, the physician, Alonzo de la Calle and Gabriel Sanchez (1).

Gabriel Sanchez, abetted by the other four Jews, sold Columbus on the idea of capturing 500 Indians and selling them as slaves in Seville, Spain, which was done. Columbus did not receive any of the money from the sale of the slaves, but he became the victim of a conspiracy fostered by Bemal, the ship's doctor. He, Columbus, suffered injustice and imprisonment as his reward. Betrayed by the five maranos (Jews) whom he had trusted and helped. This, ironically, was the beginning of slavery in the Americas (2).

also

It is equally important to remember that these poor Black creatures had to lie in human excrement for the entire trip. Think of it! No wonder sickness and disease took such a high toll. Remember the figures: approximately one hundred ten million Black people were captured and removed from their homeland in Africa. Only ELEVEN MILLION of these Black slaves reached the Colonies alive.

And the Jews still talk about the Germans and Hitler and how six million Jews were exterminated during World War II. This is the greatest LIE ever perpetrated upon the people of the world-whereas the story of the poor Black slaves is documented. Documented with TRUTH. The evidence is still available for the people of the world to see.

The "Carnegie Institute of Technology" is located in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Choosen ppl, yeah ok
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Old 05-02-2008, 03:05 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Are you saying the Holocaust didn't happen? Or that it's impact was
overstated? One of the reasons Jews still talk about the Holocaust
is that there are many survivors alive today.
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Old 05-02-2008, 03:21 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Redlocks View Post
Are you saying the Holocaust didn't happen? Or that it's impact was
overstated? One of the reasons Jews still talk about the Holocaust
is that there are many survivors alive today.
Me not saying anything but the article is saying they amount of ppl that actually died was overstated. Just like homeboy in Iran, he said the same thing. The Essays says they just keep it fresh in our memories so they can benefit from it.
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Old 05-02-2008, 03:33 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Apocalypto View Post
Me not saying anything but the article is saying they amount of ppl that actually died was overstated. Just like homeboy in Iran, he said the same thing. The Essays says they just keep it fresh in our memories so they can benefit from it.
The same could be said about blacks in the US and slavery. Wrong is
wrong no matter what the prevailing mentality at the time. In the case
of Jews and the Holocaust their wounds are fresher.
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Old 05-04-2008, 02:15 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Redlocks View Post
The same could be said about blacks in the US and slavery. Wrong is
wrong no matter what the prevailing mentality at the time. In the case
of Jews and the Holocaust their wounds are fresher.
Yeah I agree with u wrong is wrong and there should be no comparison between the Holocaust and slavery. However I must question why do you consider that the Jew's wounds are much fresher, because one can make that same argument for slavery. Slavery has made a huge impact not only on society, but also on the individual today and not only regarding Black Americans.See here lies the problem with making a statement like that. The legacy of slavery and it's past is evident throughout the world. Look at the congo, people seem to forget it's human holocaust. King Leopold and the rest of his deciples ravaged the place, committed so many atrocities, almost wiped out the idgenious population, but today the west has turned it's back. King Leopold's statue still stands in Belguim and he is praised for building an empire and bringing civilization to the congo. Besides the ideaologies of a colonizer, the congo today like many other post colonial countries and those who have a history of european enslavement are.................suffering from proverty, goverment corruption, the spreading epidemic of AIDS, instable economy and it continues. The wounds of slavery are even fresh across the atlantic, England. I will never forget the time that I was reffered to as "mulatto" by a teacher in cosmopolitan london. He said he was trying to classify the African Diaspora. He pointed out four girls, including me. He told the first girl, who is of Nigerian and shri lanken parentage, that she would be considered the darkest, because of her mixture. he then addressed this other girl as being "caramel", because according to him her features were very unique. He then addressed me as being "mulatto", because to him I was a mixture of both races. No one in the class took offense to this, everyone stupidly laughed with him, naiive to the racisim behind his judgement. I asked him what was his purpose of classifying us by those titles, he told me that he wanted to prove that the African Diaspora is very diverse and that one cant just identify as being black. But his classifications only contradicted his belief, why would you divide us based on our physical features. So let me ask you, where does his ideaology come from?
You say the Holocaust is more recent, but Hitler was conditioned by the same teachings of the men before him.
What are the wounds of the Jews in America, the Jew in Europe, in the middle east and all over the world. Look at the jewish community in crown heights. For god's sake look at Israel, I guess the memory of the Holocaust has transformed into the political and social oppression of Palestinians. A land that is not even there's. During world war two, Britian advertised free property for jewish exiles in Kenya. This community profited off of the free labor of kenyans and where acessible to many priviliges. This is not to say that the Holocaust never happened, or that it should not be recognized. I just cant support the zionistic shit, that many jews like to use for their benefits. The west loves to glorify the victims of the Holocaust, but we have such a hard time talking about slavery and tend to look at it as just being the "past"/
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Old 05-04-2008, 08:42 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bk's bajan italia View Post
....So let me ask you, where does his ideaology come from?

...The west loves to glorify the victims of the Holocaust, but we have such a hard time talking about slavery and tend to look at it as just being the "past"
It is human nature to judge others based upon their outward appearance,
however your teacher's feelings of both racial and intellectual superiority
are probably a coping mechanism to make him feel good about himself and
mask his own insecurities.

Though I've only met the descendants of slaves, I have met a couple
Holocaust victims and listened to them tell their stories which were horrible.
Because the Holocaust was much more recent than slavery in America and
the fact that almost half of all Jews in the world live here the plight of its
victims is unlikely to be forgotten.
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Old 05-04-2008, 10:29 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Nobody's glorifying any "idealogy"...people who criticise the focus on the Holocaust do so without much common sense. The simple fact is that the atrocities of the Holocaust were documented vividly in writing (by victims and other eyewitnesses) as well as on film. It doesn't make the Holocaust worthier as a tragedy than the Middle Passage or slavery...but vivid images have a way of leaving a lasting impression on the psyche. Black people should get off this habit of comparing slavery with the Holocaust, and they need to stop trying to demonize Jews at every turn...it just looks stupid.
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Old 05-04-2008, 10:44 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bake n Shark View Post
Nobody's glorifying any "idealogy"...people who criticise the focus on the Holocaust do so without much common sense. The simple fact is that the atrocities of the Holocaust were documented vividly in writing (by victims and other eyewitnesses) as well as on film. It doesn't make the Holocaust worthier as a tragedy than the Middle Passage or slavery...but vivid images have a way of leaving a lasting impression on the psyche. Black people should get off this habit of comparing slavery with the Holocaust, and they need to stop trying to demonize Jews at every turn...it just looks stupid.
no one is trying to compare slavery to the Holocaust....and ur absolutely right vivid images are very effective, that is the purpose of cinema. Again this is not an argument about whether the holocaust happened or not. Yes there are tons of evidence that give truth to the Holocaust, but there is also evidence that gives truth to slavery and the oppression of other people's. lol.... demonize the jews,
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Old 05-04-2008, 10:52 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Redlocks View Post
It is human nature to judge others based upon their outward appearance,
however your teacher's feelings of both racial and intellectual superiority
are probably a coping mechanism to make him feel good about himself and
mask his own insecurities.
(right it is a coping mechanism)
Though I've only met the descendants of slaves, I have met a couple
Holocaust victims and listened to them tell their stories which were horrible.
Because the Holocaust was much more recent than slavery in America and
the fact that almost half of all Jews in the world live here the plight of its
victims is unlikely to be forgotten.
But I'm not just talking about slavery in America, I am talking about the impact of slavery globally. I am not dismissing the fact that the Holocaust was horrible, but look at the world today. Has the holocaust ever ended?
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Old 05-04-2008, 11:09 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bk's bajan italia View Post
no one is trying to compare slavery to the Holocaust....and ur absolutely right vivid images are very effective, that is the purpose of cinema. Again this is not an argument about whether the holocaust happened or not. Yes there are tons of evidence that give truth to the Holocaust, but there is also evidence that gives truth to slavery and the oppression of other people's. lol.... demonize the jews,
Did you read the article...or even the first post in this thread?
And the Jews still talk about the Germans and Hitler and how six million Jews were exterminated during World War II. This is the greatest LIE ever perpetrated upon the people of the world-whereas the story of the poor Black slaves is documented. Documented with TRUTH. The evidence is still available for the people of the world to see.
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Old 05-04-2008, 02:23 PM   #11 (permalink)
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havnt read article

attack on the publicity of the jewish holicaust is not necessary unless used to make a point of some sort.

and a point could be made...

since white people in general in u.s. and probably other westernized areas are clueless about what happened in slavery and its ongoing effects in society and the psyches of the different races!
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