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in some countries we hear the horror stories of those whom committed crimes and recieved extreme punishment. do u think that torturing some1 can be viewed acceptable or even valid dependent on a situation? i don't have the book of human rights in front of me, but i'm sure somewhere in the decency act section it is forbidden to do such heinous things. thoughts?

salt

I have to think about this and get back to you.

for agrument sake, maybe it depends on the crime.....someone who locks their children in a closet or some sick crap like that....don't they deserve to be tortured???

Salt,
You would have to define your meaning of 'torture'. As I see it, that word is very subjective. When they caned that kid in Southeast Asia, is that considered torture? I don't think so! Or is it when they gain a certain level, then it becomes torture. However, I have a book on the 'Falun Gong' that I consider to be torture, in everyone's definition of the word. Personally, I feel torment (mental, physical, emotional etc) with consistency should be considered torture. When a man continually abuses his wife...isn't that the same. My opinion!!! Regards.
D Bad Lad

I think that torture should be allowed. I know some people may think its inhumane, and I'm not saying to do stuff like putting live people through meat grinders, which is something I heard they do in Iraqi prisons, but I think that there are certain crimes that call for torture. Rapists, pedifiles, spousal/child abusers, and some murderers should experience some type of torture. I agree with Singapore and the public flogging of that man years ago. Public embarassment is often a great punishment for people. I just think that people need to be a little more frightened of possible consequences of crimes and maybe they will be a little more cautious of commiting them or less likely to repeat them. It's obvious t hat our current system isn't working, so maybe we should revert to some old ways. But I do think it all depends on the crime and the extent of torture.

ok i understand u'r responses and let me make myself a lil bit more clear.

would u justify torture 4 a bomber that knew information where hundreds of ppl will be blown to pieces b4 it occured? would u torture a rapist 4 taking advantage of a weaker/younger sex? u c it shouldn't be dependent upon the crime or for a means of obtaining information. this can go somewhat along the lines of saying everything should be and eye 4 an eye, tooth 4 tooth notion. even if we agree upon torturing some1, who's 2 say what the punishment would be? the level of it? and 4 how long? it would seem a violation of basic human rights to directly injure some1's well being correct?

salt

I am not sure that I agree with torture. This is because the law is extremely ambigious with the application of penalties for crimes commited. Firstly, different states or countries apply different penalties for the same crime. Mostly this is decided by either judge or jury. On a good day, with a good attorney, the guilty can get off with minor punishment. Or even be free for that matter (i.e. O.J.). Yes, let's not open that pandora's box!
Ok, so we have a pre-meditated crime. Let's say the rape of a child. The criminal is found guilty by a jury of his/her peers. How would we decide on the quantity of torture, the length, the type (there are many)? I assume a judge would make those decisions but I ask...What if a member of the judge's family suffered through a horrible tragedy as the case's victim? Would he/she be capable of making a decision without predujice?
I say, the justice system is already screwed up enough to introduce a torture system. However, I believe in delivering quick and final justice (ie hanging. the needle etc) for certain crimes. Yes, I know some would say that is torture to the extreme but in my opinion it is quick and decisive while torture necessitates time. Also it would save the taxpayers millions of dollars. Of course the argument could be presented that so often we charge the wrong person. Heaven help us!!!
D Bad Lad

This is a tough one that I have wrestled with for some time until recently. There was a ten year old girl in downtown Toronto who went missing after school on Monday this week, they found her poor little body in pieces on Tuesday with her torso in a duffle bag and her head and legs in a bag with wheels.
After hearing tragedies like this I believe that some level of torture should be instituted. I mean I know that we as humans may not have the ultimate right to torture someone, but what gives criminals like the man in this case the right to dismember this 10 year old little girl's body?
If anything I think torture should be instituted because it can act as a deterrent.

YES .. YES. YES... I think torturing is reasonable at times. Let me elaborate:-


I think torturing to set an EXAMPLE or as i look at it " A Human sacrifice " to instill fear in the heart of " would be criminals " is well in order. Criminals should have second thoughts about commiting an act in fear of the consequences if caught because from what i see in this day and age criminals don't even THINK...
Let me digress a bit....
A parent needs to instill fear in a their child's heart. A fear that basically says " LITTLE CHILE IF U EVA TAKE GOD out yuh THOUGHTS and RAISE UP against me I WILL BEAT YUH TILL DE WHITE MEAT.. ".. Ok people i know i'm pushing it there but i'm sure u guys catch my drift. I think the same thing applies here. People need to know CRIME IS BAD and the consequences can cost you a TONGUE , 5 fingers 2 big toes and a NIPPLE.. YES i said it .. A NIPPLE !!
proceed.

TORTURING IS AN ACT OF EVIL AND HATE, AND WE HAVE NO RIGHT 2 TORTURE ANYONE, WE ARE SUPPOST TO LEAVE THE JUDGEMENT UP TO GOD, RIGHT? IF YOU ARE A MOTHER/FATHER/BROTHA/SISTA ETC. AND SOMEBODY KILLED YOU BEST FRIEND, UR CHILD, UR LOVER.....IT IS ONLY NATURAL THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO KILL/TORTURE THE PERSON THAT DID IT? YOU WOULD HAVE ENOUGH HATE IN YOU, TO EVEN GO OVER THE LIMITS, BUT ARE YOU DOING THE RIGHT THING? DO TWO WRONGS MAKE IT RIGHT? WE ARE GOING AROUND IN CIRCLES, LOOKING FOR AN ANSWER ON HOW TO STOP VIOLENCE, RAPIST, CRIMINALS ECT. DOES TORTURING REALLY SOLVE THE PROBLEM? OR IS IT JUST AN ACT OF REVENGE? HOW DO WE DECIDE WHAT TORTURE IS RIGHT FOR WHO?
I PERSONALY AGREE WITH ALOT OF YOU( NOT TO SURE ABOUT THE NIPPLE PART) OUCH, BUT SERIOUSLY CAN WE DO THIS, AND IS THERE ANOTHER WAY AROUND THIS????????

Torture as an EXAMPLE! Are we doomed to return to barbaric times? Because if we do as you say CoCoLeeks, this is where we will end up. I think the major issue should not punishment but prevention. As we see today, the present sytem does not work. There is no fear in going to prison as in there a prisoner has access to, possibly more comforts than when they were in the streets. Comforts like professional gyms, tv, video and three squares etc. At certain facilities, even sexual opportunities are allowed. Yes, the legal type. Justification for all these luxuries fall under the rehabilitation umbrella. I say it does not work. Therefore, I say get rid of it. Maybe we should bring back 'the hard labor system' and give them bread and water...maybe some saltfish on weekends. It would not only give prisoners something to occupy their time but it should ease the taxpayers burdens as prisoners would be truly contributing to their keep. Also hard labor may deter criminals from their illegal activities. Yes, the civil right activists would have my head for saying these 'obscenities' but even they have not come up with alternative or better solutions. I read somewhere, it costs taxpayers approximately $70,0000/year per prisoner and over $100,000 if they are on death row. A tremendous burden on my pockets especially when they are not too deep! Nuff Said!
D Bad Lad
PS: The nipple thing...hmmm, you are treading along the line of kinkiness. oooh!

I'm trying to get into the mental aspect of it all . because isn't that where all crimes originate from ??. The mind. Putting someone in a luxury free prison and easing tax payers may do the trick but there are times when all stops need to be pulled out. And i may have sounded pretty extreme in my previous post and near barbaric but i took that route because criminals seem to have no fear for the justice system. It comes a point in time where other means of punishment need to be implemented at times. Just to send a message that society will not tolerate these heinous acts.
Prison isn't what it used to be, and lets face it neither of our suggestions on this board can become a reality. In a world where a criminal seems to have as much rights as a law abiding citizen Torture nor being jailed in a prison without being ' Properly and luxuriously " taken care of isn't something i can see in the future. So what now ??. Should we arm ourselves and take self defense to a whole other level or continue on as we are...(just food for thought). Crime is inevitable. Preventing it is damnnn near impossible. And i think we both agree that the current punishments are WEAK. But i'll stand by my belief that torturing can be reasonable at times... And the key phrase i think in my previous sentence that was also the part of the Question posted by lordsalt is " Reasonalbe at times ".

P.S - Yea i agree i was treading on a very thin line.. Care to join.. then again don't.. The line just might break carryin both of our weights and imma try my best NOT to fall on the " kinky side "..

Punishment should be relative to the crime and the culture. If torture deters crime then I agree with it. If the death penalty deters crime then I agree with it. If 10 years in jail deters crime I agree with it.

The purpose of punishment is to deter others from committing the same crime and ofcourse the "punishing" the offender.

What works for some may not work for others. Torture may work in America but not in Canada because of cultural differences.

So all in all it just depends . . . .

I only agree with this concept when it comes to rapists and child abusers/molesters.

The only form of torture I support is mental torture. I don't think for any crime there is any amount of physical pain that would make it comparable to the victim of that crime. The body only has so much of a threshold for pain, and after a time, the person will either just die from prolonged pain, or become desensitized to it.

On the other hand, a life sentence in solitary confinement, without the means of ending your life (i.e. they feed you even if they have to do it intravenously) and without any form of outside stimuli (books, magazines, radios, etc) so you could stay there and do nothing but think about your wrongs all day, and all night. That, in my opinion is true torture.