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Old 05-07-2008, 08:37 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Life and Debt (Documentary re: Jamaica)

Just bought this and watched it for the first time....interesting...but not totally surprising to me. Anyone else see it?

I've always suspected that many of these loans to Caribbean nations have predatory lending clauses...but to get the historical background..."interesting" is an understatement.
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Old 05-07-2008, 08:42 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I saw the film at the theater a few years ago. The main thing I got
from the Life and Debt was that loans from the IMF come with strings
attached. I've also reconsidered some of my thoughts about free trade
because while it helps larger countries gain access to smaller markets
it also creates unfair competition for local farmers. There is no way
the little man can compete with huge multinational companies.
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Old 05-07-2008, 10:46 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Caribsun View Post
Just bought this and watched it for the first time....interesting...but not totally surprising to me. Anyone else see it?

I've always suspected that many of these loans to Caribbean nations have predatory lending clauses...but to get the historical background..."interesting" is an understatement.
Ive seen it and used it in the classroom it really is an eye opener....
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Redlocks View Post
it also creates unfair competition for local farmers. There is no way
the little man can compete with huge multinational companies.
I'm new to learning about the development field and I'm learning a lot. Learned a lot from watching the movie. I used to study trends of industry in JA and why some of them stopped...now I know...while I don't believe everything I see and hear, I walked away from this flick without much doubt in my mind about what was doing on...as for the banana issue from years ago...I remember it was an uproar...everyone was talking about it, writing songs about it, and even going on hunger strikes to protest it (e.g. Randal Robinson of TransAfrica). This was a good primer for all who want to learn about the downside of some of these trade agreements/ loans....I'm sure there's more to the story...but....

I visited Costa Rica last year and learned that there was some trade agreement with Latin America last year...folks down there were upset and I didn't fully understand why...now I understand their concerns.

Last edited by Caribsun; 05-07-2008 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:09 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rinababy View Post
Ive seen it and used it in the classroom it really is an eye opener....
I bought it at an Ethiopian-owned bookstore near Howard University...when i picked it up off the shelf..I know I had to buy it...one of the employees got excited and said it was truly an eye-opener. That's an understatement...

While I'm glad that tourism has thrived in JA, I know that it and all other islands are more than just a sex/drug playground for foreigners. West Indians are hard working people...some of us are lazy and that's just how some of us are wired, but there are plenty enterprising people out here with talents outside of making tourists feel "irie." There are so many natural resources on these islands and they're being wasted...when I saw how they wasted all of that milk, chicken, and other food, I was sick about it. Look how much people out there who are hungry...and...if I believe the movie, there are natural resources being wasted...people are required to live below their potential...for many of us, it's the opposite of who we are.

Last edited by Caribsun; 05-07-2008 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 05-19-2008, 05:31 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I watched this some years ago. I think what alot of folks fail to understand is none of those Bretton Woods organizations (IMF, World Bank, etc.) are as helpful as people like to think they are. Yeah, they'll give you the moneyto build your economy but they will also tell you how to run your economy.
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Old 05-19-2008, 05:43 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I streamed it off of Surfthechanel.com but I would like to purchase it.

I kept telling myself why don't they just support themselves, feed the people of their country and no one would go hungry, no? I am sure it is much harder then that when ye have big man @ top making all decisions for the ones they put below.

Wouldn't it be great if people traded things for things and not things for money..like bananas for oranges and so on, I know this will never happen but I wonder to myself how it would work out..and if money was never an issue..I have read that it was like this @ one time, some people even used cocoa beans for "monetary" value. Nutrition & Health is #1 and $ shouldn't be put forth before these things.

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Old 05-19-2008, 05:45 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SeReNDiPiTy View Post
I watched this some years ago. I think what alot of folks fail to understand is none of those Bretton Woods organizations (IMF, World Bank, etc.) are as helpful as people like to think they are. Yeah, they'll give you the moneyto build your economy but they will also tell you how to run your economy.
I still can't forget your mother's comment after she saw it
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Old 05-19-2008, 05:48 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kapich View Post
I streamed it off of Surfthechanel.com but I would like to purchase it.

I kept telling myself why don't they just support themselves, feed the people of their country and no one would go hungry, no? I am sure it is much harder then that when ye have big man @ top making all decisions for the ones they put below.

Wouldn't it be great if people traded things for things and not things for money..like bananas for oranges and so on, I know this will never happen but I wonder to myself how it would work out..and if money was never an issue..I have read that it was like this @ one time, some people even used cocoa beans for "monetary" value. Nutrition & Health is #1 and $ shouldn't be put forth before these things.
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Actually the deal JA has with Venezuela is like that. They trading them goods for Oil.
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Old 05-19-2008, 07:18 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SeReNDiPiTy View Post
I watched this some years ago. I think what alot of folks fail to understand is none of those Bretton Woods organizations (IMF, World Bank, etc.) are as helpful as people like to think they are. Yeah, they'll give you the moneyto build your economy but they will also tell you how to run your economy.

if one is going to any of these organizations, then one is not managing one's economy effectively.
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Old 05-19-2008, 07:36 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Apocalypto View Post
Actually the deal JA has with Venezuela is like that. They trading them goods for Oil.
It's nice to know it exists somewhere in the world, we need more deals like that.
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Old 05-19-2008, 09:05 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kapich View Post
It's nice to know it exists somewhere in the world, we need more deals like that.

would de international monetary system actually work if sumtin like - i assume that the agreement between chavez and jamaica is a form of bartering - was in place? dont tink members of g7 would agree to such a system.
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Old 05-19-2008, 09:25 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by winn dixie View Post
would de international monetary system actually work if sumtin like - i assume that the agreement between chavez and jamaica is a form of bartering - was in place? dont tink members of g7 would agree to such a system.
of course d wouldnt. u tink d interest of g7 is w/ d people. no it is in der best interest 2 create groups and meet like dis behind closed doors 2 make such decision n dum dwn d people wen it comes to money

it seemed 2 mi in d past wen i hurd d word barter it seem bad but it nuh sound bad atal (Trade Exchange or Barter is a type of trade in which goods or services are directly exchanged for other goods and/or services, without the use of money." it'd be nice no? no money cuz money is jus a debt bill. but d like 2 make we tink it make d world go round wen people like we make it go round.

n it take we the people to make decision, not big man behind close door ontop doin ting how it bin dun since slavery. we need fi change d whole system n'i believe a good start woulda bin w/ Ron Paul in service in d U.S chek it out Zeitgeist - The Movie

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Old 05-19-2008, 10:00 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kapich View Post
of course d wouldnt. u tink d interest of g7 is w/ d people. no it is in der best interest 2 create groups and meet like dis behind closed doors 2 make such decision n dum dwn d people wen it comes to money

it seemed 2 mi in d past wen i hurd d word barter it seem bad but it nuh sound bad atal (Trade Exchange or Barter is a type of trade in which goods or services are directly exchanged for other goods and/or services, without the use of money." it'd be nice no? no money cuz money is jus a debt bill. but d like 2 make we tink it make d world go round wen people like we make it go round.

n it take we the people to make decision, not big man behind close door ontop doin ting how it bin dun since slavery. we need fi change d whole system n'i believe a good start woulda bin w/ Ron Paul in service in d U.S chek it out Zeitgeist - The Movie

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I see where u are going with idea. but how would u quatify the value of products to make trades fair?
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Old 05-20-2008, 12:34 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Sankofaa? and there is a video rental downstairs?
If its there I went to a few Black Panther meetings there back in the day.
Originally Posted by Caribsun View Post
I bought it at an Ethiopian-owned bookstore near Howard University...when i picked it up off the shelf..I know I had to buy it...one of the employees got excited and said it was truly an eye-opener. That's an understatement...

While I'm glad that tourism has thrived in JA, I know that it and all other islands are more than just a sex/drug playground for foreigners. West Indians are hard working people...some of us are lazy and that's just how some of us are wired, but there are plenty enterprising people out here with talents outside of making tourists feel "irie." There are so many natural resources on these islands and they're being wasted...when I saw how they wasted all of that milk, chicken, and other food, I was sick about it. Look how much people out there who are hungry...and...if I believe the movie, there are natural resources being wasted...people are required to live below their potential...for many of us, it's the opposite of who we are.
Yall really making me feel I have to see it.
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