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And America wonders why it is hated so much.If these terrorists strike again it will be 100 times worse then what happened on 9-11.

LOL. Why is anyone surprised at torture? Lets be realistic. What armed group doesn't use torture? Do you think the terrorists aren't using torture? I think that they deserve a fair process. Not these secret prisons. That being said. Once proven guilty of actively participating in terroorist acts to kill others, I think they should be tortured if it will lead to information to stop other attacks.

Problem is once due process is allowed, then the constitution also prohibits all inhumane treatment. Even the death penalty has to be as painless and humane as possible.

To me terrorists, along with serial killers and other parasites of humanity voided the right to humane treatment.

I don't agree with torture to try to prove if the person is guilty or not because it can lead to false confessions. But if a person is proven without a smidgeon of doubt to be a murderer, ################ him.

For those reasons i am against these CIA prisons, but not to torturing/drugging known terrorists for info.

There wouldn't be terrorists if the United States would not stick its nose where it doesnt belong.This is what America gets for invading other people's land,stealing their resources and being the world's police.So dont blame the terrorists BLAME AMERICA.

And by the way America is the biggest terrorist on the planet earth.

Wrong. They are quite overt in their acts so they really don't constitute the element of terrorist. Not that the CIA hasn't done acts which could constitute terrorism as well. But not to the level that Al Qaeda, Hizbalah, Sendero Luminoso or other groups have become. And don't give me that BS that thes terrorist groups exist solely because of America. They have been in existence trying to force Shariah onto countries around the Globe, not just the USA. Try to sell that pill to another fool.

Wrong. They are quite overt in their acts so they really don't constitute the element of terrorist. Not that the CIA hasn't done acts which could constitute terrorism as well. But not to the level that Al Qaeda, Hizbalah, Sendero Luminoso or other groups have become. And don't give me that BS that thes terrorist groups exist solely because of America. They have been in existence trying to force Shariah onto countries around the Globe, not just the USA. Try to sell that pill to another fool.

Just go and do research on this countries past and history and then tell me that it isnt the biggest terrorist on the planet earth.This country has alot of blood on its hands so dont go there.And they are not trying to force Shariah or any other beliefs on anyone.America is the one who's trying to convert the whole world.

Thats the problem with this damn country.Whenever someone doesnt accept its beliefs and way of life they are persecuted.

Whatever. I wrote my diplomacy course on US actions against other countries. I know full well what subversive tactics they did in the name of either 'democracy', 'anti-communism', or straight up cut throat capitalism. That doesn't change the fact that financing local guerrilla groups, kidnapping, dirty wars, etc, do not constitute the definition of terrorism.

Oh yes they are.
Tell me how all these attacks just in the last month are because of the US:

11/20/05 Thailand Sungai Kolok 0 12 Twelve people, including a 2-year-old boy, are injured by two bombs at a market. One was hidden in a fruit basket.
11/20/05 Thailand Narathiwat 0 3 Islamic gunmen attempt to kill three people, including a pregnant milk vendor in drive-bys.
11/18/05 Indonesia Palu 1 1 Machete-wielders attack and nearly decapitate a 23-year-old cosmetics salesgirl. Her 20-year-old companion's left arm is nearly hacked off as well.
11/17/05 India Lancha 2 0 Two cousins are killed inside their home by the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen.
11/16/05 Thailand Narathiwat 2 0 Two Buddhists are murdered by Muslim extremists in separate shooting attacks.
11/16/05 Thailand Narathiwat 9 9 A man, woman and seven children, including an infant are slaughtered in their home by ten Islamic militants with assault rifles.
11/16/05 India Awantipora 2 3 Muslim militants attack a security convoy, killing two and injuring three.
11/16/05 India Srinigar 6 48 Lashkar-e-Taiba sets off a car bomb in the heart of a business district, killing at least four people and injuring over forty.
11/15/05 Pakistan Karachi 3 12 A firebomb goes off inside a fast-food restaurant, then a car bomb detonates nearby. Three people are killed and about a dozen injured. (Identity unclear).
11/15/05 India Tangmarg 6 90 al-Arifeen claims responsibility for a grenade attack on a political rally. Six people are killed, including a 12-year-old, and about ninety injured.
11/15/05 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 A man working in a rice field is shot three times by two Islamists who stop him under the pretense of asking directions.
11/14/05 Thailand Pattani 3 1 Islamists walk into a grocery store and murder the husband and wife owners. Their 10-year-old boy escapes. Two Buddhist highway workers are shot in a separate attack.
11/14/05 India Srinigar 4 14 Islamic militants attack people in a business district, near hotels. Four people are killed and fourteen others injured.
11/14/05 India Gulbug Ratnipora 1 0 A 22-year-old woman is killed inside her home by the Mujahideen.
11/14/05 Bangladesh Jhalokathi 2 0 Jamatul Muhahideen extremists hurl a bomb at a car carrying two judges, killing them both.
11/13/05 Thailand Pattani 3 0 Three civilians, including a teacher, are gunned down over the weekend by Muslim extremists.
11/12/05 India Raipora 2 3 A 16-year-old is among two people killed in an encounter with the Hizb- ul-Mujahideen.
11/12/05 Philippines Jolo Island 3 12 Three Flippino soldiers are killed in an ambush by Abu Sayyaf militants and the shootouts that follow.
11/11/05 India Pulwama 1 0 A congressional party activist is murdered by Muslim militants.
11/10/05 India Nadihal-Bandipora 1 0 A teacher is shot to death by Islamic militants.
11/10/05 Pakistan Brabcha 6 6 Six members of the same family are killed in an al-Qaeda landmine blast. Six others sustain injury.
11/9/05 Jordan Amman 56 115 Three coordinated and horrific suicide bombings target hotels, including Days Inn and the Grand Hyatt. The worst damage was at the Radisson, where an al- Qaeda bomber walked into a wedding party and killed dozens, including several children.
11/9/05 India Tral 1 0 A civilian is gunned down by the Mujahideen in his village.
11/8/05 India Larkuti 2 0 Lashkar-e-Toiba terrorists invade the home of a council member's brother and sister-in-law to shoot both people to death.
11/8/05 India Lawaypora 1 19 The Mujahideen bomb a security patrol, injuring twenty people, one of whom later succumbs to his injuries.
11/8/05 Indonesia Poso 0 2 Two Christian 17-year-old girls are shot in the head in a brutal attack only a few days after three others were beheaded.
11/7/05 India Indergam 1 0 The Mujahideen gun down a civilian in an apple orchard.
11/7/05 India Quil Muqam 2 0 Two civlians are killed in a Mujahideen bombing.
11/7/05 Thailand Yala 2 0 Muslim militants kill a villager and a Buddhist policeman in coordinated attacks.
11/6/05 India Kashmir 3 1 Terrorists shoot three villagers to death in separate attacks (Chakras, Batapora Sopore, Kulgam)
11/5/05 India Rajwar 1 0 A villager is gunned down by the Mujahideen.
11/5/05 Pakistan Mir Ali 3 0 Three children are killed by an al-Qaeda bomb that explodes prematurely.
11/2/05 India Srinigar 10 18 Jaish-e-Mohammed kill a 10-year-old boy, a woman, and at least eight others with a suicide bombing in a residential neighborhood.
11/2/05 Iraq Jurf al Naddaf 5 6 Five Iraqis in a private minibus are killed in a Jihadi roadside bombing attack.
11/2/05 Thailand Yala 1 0 A 32-year-old man is shot to death by Muslim militants as he is riding a motorcycle.
11/1/05 India Lamad-Bernai 1 1 Two civlians are abducted by the Mujahideen. One is strangled. The other is still missing.

Im right and you know it.The truth hurts doesnt it?I tell ya what go this site right here http://www.heavy.com and click on animantions.Check out the cartoon entitled"F THE USA".

You see the Arabs are not alone in their hatred.

That the USA is hated is not in dispute, your claim that the terrorists exist because of the USA is. You are like a Leming that follows populist claims blindly.

The problem here is that there is no due process, no courts…nothing but secret prisons and questionable interrogation processes. I agree with you that all armed groups may use torture however, when you pride yourself, at least superficially, on being just and the beacon on fairness around the world, when exposed the world would sees the hypocrisy. Probably that’s why they don’t want to join the ICC. Not to negate, other so-called "terrorist" (one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter...we just chose sides), but as you also noted this government have also been involved in "terrorist" activity...domestic and international...covert and open for all long as this structure has existed.

And if thats how u feel about the country, y u have the US FLAG underneath ur name AND Y U LIVING HERE???

Let's put it like this, everywhere u go or move, there will be a problem no matter what country u in, U still have 2 THANK GOD that AT LEAST that U CAN WORK, PROVIDE FOR YOUR FAMILY AND ETC. other than that i know that America have its flaws but remember the violence in the world has been going on 4 CENTURIES waaaaaaaaay before AMERICA DECIDED 2 GET INVOLVED.....

THINK ABOUT IT

__________________
de ORIGINAL ...

And if thats how u feel about the country, y u have the US FLAG underneath ur name AND Y U LIVING HERE???

Aaaahhh so what.I can say what I want.Its true.

on most you get no dispute from me. I draw the line between guerillas and freedom fighters and terrorists though . I have seen and met both in my life. Freedom fighters do not casually claim innocent victims blown to pieces or allow innocents to die on purpose to make a point. Terrorists do. I don't care if its the CIA or Al Qaida, if you hurt innocents on purpose and knowingly to make a point you should be exterminated from this earth. Freedom fighters might have collateral damage, but they try not to hurt civilians and their targets tend to be military and political, not civilian.

While i disagree the Us is the largest terrorist group in the world. It did carry out the worlds largest terrorist act. Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They could have easily detonated it next to japan, in the sea and give the japanese an ultimatum. They murdered thousands of innocents to make a point. Germany's bombing of England is another one. They did not target military objectives, they just killed as many people as possible.

http://www.factcheck.org/article365.html

A Tortured History
The President says "We do not torture." We look at what has surfaced so far.

December 19, 2005
Modifiedecember 20, 2005
Summary



President Bush has declared repeatedly, “we do not torture.” But claims of prisoner abuse continue to surface, Amnesty International has declared the US detention center in Cuba to be "a gulag," and the administration has yet to deny a news report that it holds scores of suspects in secret CIA prisons overseas.

Much of what goes on is classified, so we can't judge how accurately the President describes what is actually happening in US interrogation centers. But in this article we do present a summary of what has been said, and what has come to light so far.


Analysis

The President said at a press conference on November 29, 2005:

Bush : The United States of America does not torture. And that's important for people around the world to understand.

That unequivocal response is typical of all his public comments regarding torture. However, the actual record is more complicated.

Here we give a brief history of some key events in the evolution of recent US policy and practice regarding torture.

"The Dark Side"

Five days after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, Vice President Cheney said the US would need to operate on the "dark side" and "use any means at our disposal" to combat terrorism. In an interview with NBC's Tim Russert on September 16, 2001, Cheney said:

Cheney: We also have to work, though, sort of the dark side , if you will. We've got to spend time in the shadows in the intelligence world. A lot of what needs to be done here will have to be done quietly, without any discussion, using sources and methods that are available to our intelligence agencies, if we're going to be successful. That's the world these folks operate in, and so it's going to be vital for us to use any means at our disposal, basically, to achieve our objective.

"Enemy Combatants"

Within months of that interview, Bush issued a Presidential Order February 7, 2002 which stated that members of al Qaeda were not considered prisoners of war but were "enemy combatants" instead. As such they were not entitled to the Geneva Convention's prohibition on torture, which it defines as "any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person."

Meanwhile, some legal experts within the administration were arguing that the US interrogators might legally inflict pain short of "an extreme level," defined in graphic terms. A memo sent from the Justice Department to then-White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales on August 1, 2002 – which became known as the "Gonzales memo" because he requested it – laid out a permissive standard:

"Gonzales memo": We conclude that for an act to constitute torture . . . it must inflict pain that is difficult to endure. Physical pain amounting to torture must be equivalent in intensity to the pain accompanying severe physical injury, such as organ failure, impairment of bodily function, or even death .

The same memo went on to argue that US anti-torture law would not apply at all to interrogations of "enemy combatants" if ordered by the President in time of war, saying that the law "would be unconstitutional if it impermissibly encroached on the President's power to conduct a military campaign." It continued:

"Gonzales memo": As Commander-in-Chief, the President has the constitutional authority to order interrogations of enemy combatants to gain intelligence information concerning military plans of the enemy. The demands of the Commander-in-Chief power are especially pronounced in the middle of a war in which the nation has already suffered a direct attack. In such a case, the information gained from interrogations may prevent future attacks by foreign enemies. Any effort to apply [the law against torture] in a manner that interferes with the President's direction of such core war matters as the detention and interrogation of enemy combatants thus would be unconstitutional.

That memo, which seemed to argue that the President could legally order torture, caused a public outcry when it became public in 2004. The Justice Department then quickly withdrew it, and Gonzales publicly dismissed it as “abstract legal theory.” The Justice Department then issued a new memo in December 2004 which argued that inflicting "severe" pain would be illegal under the anti-torture law, in contrast to "extreme" pain as stated in the Gonzalez memo. But the new memo pointedly did not discuss whether or not the Constitution permits the President to order torture in time of war, saying any such discussion was "unnecessary." It added, "Consideration of the bounds of any such authority would be inconsistent with the President's unequivocal directive that United States personnel not engage in torture."

Abu Ghraib

The Gonzales memo surfaced just as the public began to learn of what happened at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. Later, Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba investigated. His report on March, 2004, confirmed that prisoners had been abused at Abu Ghraib prison from August 2003 through February 2004. The report included the following list of abuses that he uncovered:

Taguba Report, March 2004: Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees; Threatening detainees with a charged 9mm pistol; Pouring cold water on naked detainees; beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair; threatening male detainees with rape; allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell; sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick; using military working dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting a detainee.

Former Army Reserve Spc. Charles Graner, Jr. later testified in military court, "I nearly beat an MI [Military Intelligence] detainee to death with MI there" while he was at Abu Ghraib. Graner himself was sentenced to ten years in prison for his involvement. He testified at the sentencing hearing of former Pfc. Lynndie England in September 2005.

A total of nine enlisted service members were convicted at court-martial or plead guilty to charges of prisoner abuse, and were discharged from the Army. Eight of the nine were given prison terms that ranged from six month to Graner's 10-year term. In addition, Army Reserve Brigadier General Janis Karpinski was demoted to the rank of Colonel and subsequently retired.

The CIA has said publicly that it is conducting its own investigations and holding its people accountable, but as of December 2005 no member of the US intelligence community has been publicly tried or accused of involvement in the abuses at Abu Ghraib.

cont

Allegations of Torture and Abuse

Detention centers at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba have been the subject of torture allegations. Perhaps the most credible are in several files from the FBI which were declassified in December 2004. A letter sent from the Counterterrorism Center of the FBI to the Army described separate incidents reported by FBI agents who monitored Guantánamo interrogations. The letter said one FBI agent watched on a TV monitor as a female interrogator questioned a handcuffed and shackled detainee who "on more than one occasion . . . appeared to be grimacing in pain." The FBI agent said a Marine – who was in the room and could see more clearly – later told him that the interrogator had "grabbed the detainee's thumbs and bent them backwards . . . she had also grabbed his genitals."

The FBI letter continued:

FBI Letter: The Marine also implied that her (the interrogator's) treatment of that detainee was less harsh than her treatment of others by indicating that he had seen her treatment of others result in detainees curling into a fetal position on the floor and crying in pain .

"Gulag of our times?"

An Amnesty International report released in May 2005 listed dozens of allegations of torture or abuse of prisoners by the US. The sources were various – including news reports, interviews conducted by Amnesty International with former prisoners, and notes taken by lawyers representing prisoners. These alleged incidents include punching, stomping, beatings with blunt objects, exposure to extreme cold weather for extended periods of time, stripping prisoners naked, sexual assaults, and sexual taunting in violation of Islamic customs. The report stopped short of accusing the US of ordering that prisoners be tortured, but said:

Amnesty International Report, May 2005: Amnesty International concludes that hypocrisy, an overarching war mentality, and a disregard for basic human rights principles and international legal obligations continue to mark the USA’s “war on terror”.

And in a forward to the report, Amnesty said, "The detention facility at Guantánamo Bay has become the gulag of our times. "

That "gulag" remark especially angered Bush, who called the Amnesty report "absurd" and said it was based on claims by "people who hate America:"

Bush, May 31, 2005: I'm aware of the Amnesty International report, and it's absurd. It's an absurd allegation. The United States is a country that is -- promotes freedom around the world. When there's accusations made about certain actions by our people, they're fully investigated in a transparent way. It's just an absurd allegation.

In terms of the detainees, we've had thousands of people detained. We've investigated every single complaint against the detainees. It seemed like to me they based some of their decisions on the word of -- and the allegations -- by people who were held in detention, people who hate America, people that had been trained in some instances to disassemble (sic) -- that means not tell the truth. And so it was an absurd report. It just is.

Secret Prisons?

On Nov. 2, 2005, Dana Priest of The Washington Post reported that a secret prison system run by the CIA and spread throughout Eastern Europe, Thailand, Afghanistan and Guantánamo Bay was holding suspected terrorists. The article reported that detainees who had been released from the secret prisons alleged that they were tortured, although whether that was by CIA personnel or others was not clear.

The Post said secret facilities in a total of eight countries had been used to detain more than 100 suspected terrorists. Roughly 30 of those are considered “major terrorism suspects” and more than 70 were described as “less important” with indirect ties to terrorism.

The State Department, CIA and White House would neither confirm nor deny the existence of the secret prisons. On Nov 8 Republican leaders in Congress demanded to an investigation of how the story got out. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-TN, and Speaker of the House J. Dennis Hastert sent a letter to the House and Senate Intelligence Committee chairmen saying:

Frist and Hastert Letter: As you know, if accurate, such an egregious disclosure could have long-term and far-reaching damaging and dangerous consequences, and will imperil our efforts to protect the American people and our homeland from terrorist attacks.

Renditions

The Post article raised new questions about the practice of “extraordinary rendition” – a process whereby the CIA or other U.S. government agencies may seize foreign nationals suspected of involvement in terrorism and ship them to detention centers for interrogation. Such centers may be in the US or overseas, including nations known for torturing their prisoners.

The practice was initiated and employed before the "war on terror" was touched off by the events of September 11, 2001. Presidential Decision Directives 39 and 62, written during the Clinton Administration, discuss rendition as a means to combat terrorism. The precise limits of the Clinton policy are not entirely clear: directive 39 states that all activities must be consistent with the procedures outlined in National Security Directive 77, but that document, issued by Bush's father when he was President, remains classified.

A chilling description of "rendition" surfaced in January, 2005 when the allegations of a German national, Khaled El-Masri, were reported in the British paper The Guardian . In December 2005, El-Masri filed a lawsuit against former CIA Director George Tenet in U.S. District Court. El-Masri said he was the victim of “inhumane conditions and coercive interrogation” when he was kidnapped by seven or eight men wearing black ski masks while he was on holiday in Macedonia, then flown to Afghanistan where he was detained in secret for months. El-Masri's legal brief states in part:

El-Masri allegation: He was beaten severely from all sides with fists and what felt like a thick stick. His clothes were sliced from his body with scissors or a knife, . . . his underwear was forcibly removed. He heard the sound of pictures being taken. He was thrown to the floor. His hands were pulled back and a boot was placed on his back. He then felt a firm object being forced into his anus.

. . . One of the men placed him in a diaper . . . [He] was marched to a waiting plane, with the shackles cutting into his ankles. Once inside, he was thrown to the floor face down and his legs and arms were spread-eagled and secured to the sides of the plane. He felt an injection in his shoulder, and became lightheaded. He felt a second injection that rendered him unconscious.

cont