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Old 02-13-2007, 04:18 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Caste System

This is an excerpt on a Human Rights report on India’s rigid Caste System that gives an account of how the Harijans (untouchables) are treated. Hence, the reason why most would prefer the term Dalit (which means "the oppressed") to identify this group.

Excerpt:
Indians at the bottom of India's Hindu caste system are attacked, raped and killed daily due to their status, even though the rigid social hierarchy has been outlawed for decades, an international human rights group said Tuesday.

India has a strikingly uneven record of battling discrimination against its 165 million dalits, or untouchables. A former president and the current chief justice are dalits, but another 1.3 million earn a pittance clearing human excrement off train tracks.

...The report offered a slew of examples of violence against dalits, such as the case of a man beaten so badly in January — after demanding that his daughter's rapists be tried — that both his legs and an arm had to be amputated.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070213/...ibqo8DzGH9xg8F
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Old 02-14-2007, 08:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Froom the article:

Hinduism divides people into social castes, and dalits, who have no caste, are considered society's lowest members.
Sorry for my ignorance but when a baby is born who is the one deciding what "caste" the baby will belong to and based on what?
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Old 02-14-2007, 09:25 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LatinGirl View Post
From the article:

Sorry for my ignorance but when a baby is born who is the one deciding what "caste" the baby will belong to and based on what?
Their parents. They belong to the caste of their parents. Japan and Korea have similar castes.
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Old 02-14-2007, 09:53 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks Oto, so what determines you belong to a certain caste? Money? Look? (in the case of India) and what are the ramifications of belonging to the best and worst castes?

Oto, esto pasa de verdad en India o es meramente historico?
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Old 02-14-2007, 11:09 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LatinGirl View Post
Thanks Oto, so what determines you belong to a certain caste? Money? Look? (in the case of India) and what are the ramifications of belonging to the best and worst castes?

Oto, esto pasa de verdad en India o es meramente historico?
De verdad pasa. It is purely determined by ancestry. THink of it as classism taken to the extreme.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste

We used to have caste systems in Latin America.
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Old 02-16-2007, 04:17 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Gosh, that's real primitive but as the article explains, through legislations these caste systems are considered illegal in Latin America, I wonder why people in India do not try something similar.
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Old 02-16-2007, 05:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LatinGirl View Post
Gosh, that's real primitive but as the article explains, through legislations these caste systems are considered illegal in Latin America, I wonder why people in India do not try something similar.
They have, but they can't stop social association.
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Old 02-16-2007, 06:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by recess View Post
This is an excerpt on a Human Rights report on India’s rigid Caste System that gives an account of how the Harijans (untouchables) are treated. Hence, the reason why most would prefer the term Dalit (which means "the oppressed") to identify this group.

Excerpt:
Indians at the bottom of India's Hindu caste system are attacked, raped and killed daily due to their status, even though the rigid social hierarchy has been outlawed for decades, an international human rights group said Tuesday.

India has a strikingly uneven record of battling discrimination against its 165 million dalits, or untouchables. A former president and the current chief justice are dalits, but another 1.3 million earn a pittance clearing human excrement off train tracks.

...The report offered a slew of examples of violence against dalits, such as the case of a man beaten so badly in January — after demanding that his daughter's rapists be tried — that both his legs and an arm had to be amputated.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070213/...ibqo8DzGH9xg8F
WOW!

That CASTE SYSTEM In INDIA is so RACIST and EVIL.

So LET us CONCENTRATE on INDIA'S CASTE SYSTEM to FIND out why this PRACTICE is still PROMINENT in this CIVILIZED WORLD of ours.
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Old 02-16-2007, 06:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by VINCYPOWA View Post
WOW!

That CASTE SYSTEM In INDIA is so RACIST and EVIL.

So LET us CONCENTRATE on INDIA'S CASTE SYSTEM to FIND out why this PRACTICE is still PROMINENT in this CIVILIZED WORLD of ours.
Not really racist because you find people with the same genetic admixture in different castes, but it is the most extreme example of Classism in existence.
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Old 02-16-2007, 07:45 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LatinGirl View Post
Gosh, that's real primitive but as the article explains, through legislations these caste systems are considered illegal in Latin America, I wonder why people in India do not try something similar.
Really ?



Originally Posted by VINCYPOWA View Post
WOW!

That CASTE SYSTEM In INDIA is so RACIST and EVIL.

So LET us CONCENTRATE on INDIA'S CASTE SYSTEM to FIND out why this PRACTICE is still PROMINENT in this CIVILIZED WORLD of ours.
They still carry on that sadistic system in di Caribbean still.Look at the word 'doogla' its accepted now but it originally has/had negative connotations.
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Old 02-16-2007, 08:09 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bandele View Post
Really ?

They still carry on that sadistic system in di Caribbean still.Look at the word 'doogla' its accepted now but it originally has/had negative connotations.
The Persistence of Caste and Anti-Caste Resistance in India and the Diaspora
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Old 02-17-2007, 09:03 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Really ?
From the same link Oto provided:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste


.Look at the word 'doogla' its accepted now but it originally has/had negative connotations.
Yes I was wondering why do we use that term in Trinidad even though the meaning is so bad?
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Old 02-17-2007, 09:40 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LatinGirl View Post
From the same link Oto provided:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste

Yes I was wondering why do we use that term in Trinidad even though the meaning is so bad?
It wasn't originally. It originally just meant mix. Intervarna. They also called a mix of a Tiger and a leopard a dogla.
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Old 02-17-2007, 10:06 PM   #14 (permalink)
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It wasn't originally. It originally just meant mix. Intervarna. They also called a mix of a Tiger and a leopard a dogla.
What about this?

Dougla, a word used by people of the West Indies, especially in, but not limited to, Trinidad and Tobago, comes from dogala, the Hindustani word for "bastard".

It was often used by people of Hindustani descent (i.e. East Indians) when referring to a person who was of mixed descent. This included anyone who was not a pure blooded member of a single caste. In the West Indies, as caste decreased in importance and intermarriage between castes became more common, this word became less used when referring to people as long as they were full-blooded Indians. However, "dougla" continued to be used frequently when referring to people of mixed African and Hindustani descent. This reflected widespread Hindustani opposition to interracial marriage. Their opposition was caused mainly by two factors: their desire to preserve Hindustani culture and racial tension between Blacks and Indians. Many Blacks also opposed interracial marriage because of anti-Indian prejudices. They, too, began referring to people of mixed race as "douglas".

Today, most people are unaware of the real meaning of "dougla". They simply think it means "a person of multi-racial descent". Despite its original use as a racial slur, "dougla" is becoming increasingly used by people of mixed race to describe themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dougla
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Old 02-17-2007, 10:25 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I am aware of that.
Originally Posted by Otorongo View Post
Wikipedia needs to be edited I see.
According to the Sankshipt Hindi Shabdasagar (Abridged Hindu Dictionary), the word 'dogla' refers, in the first instance, to the "progeny (children) of "inter varna marriage" and only in the second instance acquires the connotation of 'bastard' meaning illegitimate.

Varna means category, primarily, and has been used for caste, class, occupation, color, etc. For instance, gour-varna means fair complexioned; kshatriya varna means warrior caste, etc. So, varna is a scientific concept, and any justice or injustice involved in its semantic usage is of a personal or societal nature. Another example is seen in crosses of leopards and tigers who were called doglas as well.

So a child of both the warrior and priest castes would alsobe be a dogla, and not be a bastard. The connotation of bastardy comes later because many doglas were illegitimate in a areas where inter varna relations were frowned on.
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