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Old 03-31-2005, 02:16 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Ananci7

I know that u are into history so I wanted to know what ur take on the Khazars is
Who they are
where they came from
their rise into power
etc
Whenever u get a chance.
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Old 04-01-2005, 03:49 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by saveoursoca
I know that u are into history so I wanted to know what ur take on the Khazars is
Who they are
where they came from
their rise into power
etc
Whenever u get a chance.
You mean the group that adopted Judaism?
Good website on them:
http://www.khazaria.com/

And except for the dumb use of the concept of caucasian:
http://www.imninalu.net/Khazars.htm
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Old 04-01-2005, 05:21 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Most of the Jews you see today, particularly the prominent ones – those of European descent – trace their origins back to the Khazars of Central and Eastern Europe whose leader in the 10th century converted his people to Judaism for POLITICAL reasons. It seemed to him to be the least of three evils because he was faced with the choice of converting to Xianity or Islam in which case he and his people would have been under the heel of the Pope or the Caliph.

As to how they rose to positions of prominence and power, well bear in mind that since ancient times the Jews have been imbued with a rigid belief that they are god’s chosen people. Whatever one wishes to make of this, such an extreme nationalistic ideology has kept Jewish people very committed and focussed and served to keep them holding on to hope even during the worst periods of Roman domination and virulent anti-Jewish bigotry at the hands of Christian Europe.

The reasons for this bigotry are somewhat complex but it has a lot to do with the Jewish refusal to be a part of the nationalistic and expansionist ideology of Rome. Their separatism alone was enough to cause deeply resentful feelings that passed on to the emerging Xianity – itself looking for a scapegoat to deflect from its own antisocial and subversive actions.

Over the next centuries Europe began to evolve from warring tribes and came together under the banner of Roman Xianity. Unfortunately, this process was done by uniting the various tribes on the basis of creating and defining common enemies and the Jews became one of them. They found themselves relegated to certain positions in society and business that the Church taught was beneath Christians such as banking and moneylending. But this eventually became a very profitable business and by the time Europe began to expand in commerce and maritime expeditions, the Jews controlled most of the financing and financial institutions. The rest is I suppose history

I mean there is a lot more to the story but it would take way too long and you try typing with one hand and a very restless baby in the other. Koestler’s “The Thirteenth Tribe” is an ok place to start as is a book I read some years ago called The Jews of Germany (can’t remember the author). There is also Stephen Birmingham’s “The Grandees” and for detailed look at Catholic anti-Jewish racism, there is a book called “Constantine’s Sword”
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Old 04-01-2005, 05:31 PM   #4 (permalink)
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read the links I posted. It is innacurate to claim most European Jews are of Khazar descent. Some are, many aren't.
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Old 04-01-2005, 10:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Otorongo
read the links I posted. It is innacurate to claim most European Jews are of Khazar descent. Some are, many aren't.
Yeah but what is ur take on them or the rest of the Jewish people of europe
I read ur article very intersting thanks I even downloaded it
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Old 04-01-2005, 11:11 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ananci_7
Most of the Jews you see today, particularly the prominent ones – those of European descent – trace their origins back to the Khazars of Central and Eastern Europe whose leader in the 10th century converted his people to Judaism for POLITICAL reasons. It seemed to him to be the least of three evils because he was faced with the choice of converting to Xianity or Islam in which case he and his people would have been under the heel of the Pope or the Caliph.

As to how they rose to positions of prominence and power, well bear in mind that since ancient times the Jews have been imbued with a rigid belief that they are god’s chosen people. Whatever one wishes to make of this, such an extreme nationalistic ideology has kept Jewish people very committed and focussed and served to keep them holding on to hope even during the worst periods of Roman domination and virulent anti-Jewish bigotry at the hands of Christian Europe.

The reasons for this bigotry are somewhat complex but it has a lot to do with the Jewish refusal to be a part of the nationalistic and expansionist ideology of Rome. Their separatism alone was enough to cause deeply resentful feelings that passed on to the emerging Xianity – itself looking for a scapegoat to deflect from its own antisocial and subversive actions.

Over the next centuries Europe began to evolve from warring tribes and came together under the banner of Roman Xianity. Unfortunately, this process was done by uniting the various tribes on the basis of creating and defining common enemies and the Jews became one of them. They found themselves relegated to certain positions in society and business that the Church taught was beneath Christians such as banking and moneylending. But this eventually became a very profitable business and by the time Europe began to expand in commerce and maritime expeditions, the Jews controlled most of the financing and financial institutions. The rest is I suppose history

I mean there is a lot more to the story but it would take way too long and you try typing with one hand and a very restless baby in the other. Koestler’s “The Thirteenth Tribe” is an ok place to start as is a book I read some years ago called The Jews of Germany (can’t remember the author). There is also Stephen Birmingham’s “The Grandees” and for detailed look at Catholic anti-Jewish racism, there is a book called “Constantine’s Sword”

Now the reason I aske this is because the Jewish people of Europe and Jerusalem today are converts.
U canot convert to become a Jew
a Jew is a birthright not a religion noone can wake up oneday and say today iwant to be a Jew.
Now this stated the Khazars and the other european converts were not the original Hebrews. Who were? Where did they go and how were theses people able to take over from them and now claim to be the true hebrews?
After roman persecutin in 70ad the Jews that fled into Africa where are they?
And dont tell me ethiopean jews. Because again Ethiopean and Hebrew are two differrent nationalities So they cant be the Ethipean jews of today. Alot of nations are claiming conversion or ancestry but where are the true Jews Today?
It has alot to do with who we are and y the history of the Jews was destroyed.
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Old 04-08-2005, 12:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by saveoursoca
Yeah but what is ur take on them or the rest of the Jewish people of europe
I read ur article very intersting thanks I even downloaded it
Contrary to your statement, Judaism did allow for conversion, they just did not pursue it in any evangelizing form. The earliest records of any population that identifies with Judaica are in Ur/Mesopotamia. From there the populations migrate to quite a bunch of places. There has been genetic research that has shown some groups made it all the way to Ghana. When Israel is conquered by the Romans, many migrate to Rome. At this time Judaism is still Patrilineal. In Fact, most African Judaic descendants still practice patriliealism. The groups that migrated to Europe ended up being persecuted and many times their women were raped, etc. The Rabbis decided to change to matrilinealism. But conversions were still allowed. Many Jewish men would bring women into the Jewish fold, but for the most part this could bring anger from the host populations. But taking Jewish women who were less defended was not a problem. Their children became Jewish under the new Jewish law. With this mixing, Jews aquired many of the traits of their host populations. The Khazars are one rare case of mass conversion and definitely added a lot more Eastern European/Turkik, blood into the European Jewish lineadges., But it does not change the majorities Jewish Ancestry. It just means they were mixed populations. Mostly the Ashkenazi. The Sephardic Jews of Southern Europe mixed with the meditteranean populations on both sides of the sea. Jews also migrated in the other direction, and have been found all the way in India and China.
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Old 04-08-2005, 12:43 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Explore these websites:
http://www.kulanu.org/communities/communities.html
http://www.mindspring.com/%7ejaypsand/splash.htm
http://www.haruth.com/JewishWorld.html
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