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Thread: What are the main differences between Africans & Indians who came to the Caribbean?

  1. #46
    Repect Our Soca Pioneers Socapro's Avatar Socapro is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by dollbabi View Post
    Thats right. You're not my husband so who cares if you're butt hurt about some orders. You only make those assumptions because you're used to being someone's b....

    You're already being told about your inaccuracies. Get it together.
    List them my darling.

    First I said that most East Indians who came to the Caribbean were from the lower castes. I never claimed that ALL were from the lower castes so BK's argument was a bogus one. So where was I inaccurate there?

    What are the other points of contention?

    Don't be lucky and coward, please list what I was supposedly inaccurate about, this is a civilize discussion thread.
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  2. #47
    Earth Angel dollbabi's Avatar dollbabi is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socapro View Post
    List them my darling.

    First I said that most East Indians who came to the Caribbean were from the lower castes. I never claimed that ALL were from the lower castes so BK's argument was a bogus one. So where was I inaccurate there?

    What are the other points of contention?

    Don't be lucky and coward, please list what I was supposedly inaccurate about, this is a civilize discussion thread.
    Who told you that there weren't any Indian languages lost?

    Who told you that there weren't indians who lost surnames?

    Just for starters...
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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by dollbabi View Post
    Who told you that there weren't any Indian languages lost?

    Who told you that there weren't indians who lost surnames?

    Just for starters...
    Lame argument.

    If names were lost or languages were lost that is because those who lost them CHOSE not to past on names and not to practice speaking their original language and to teach it to their children.

    I am also aware than some Indians married Africans and many could have changed their surname to the man's because of marriage. That again is choice.

    That is not suffering as far as I am concerned as that is down to choice rather than to being prohibited from speaking your native language, religion and culture and having your surname being changed to the slave masters as soon as you landed in the Caribbean as the Africans routinely had to endure.

    You can't compare what East Indians went thru to what Africans had to go thru for centuries before the Indians came to the Caribbean and it’s an insult and a disrespect to Africans to even make the comparison.

    PS:
    Btw I have all races in my family so I am not trying to persecute any other race here by speaking the truth.
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  4. #49
    Registered User Carib2 is offline
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    Was I being lied to all my life that Indians who went to the Caribbean suffered from forced labour and were treated like animals? Of course they weren't enduring the hardship that Africans faced but nevertheless they were treated badly too.

    Surely if Indians weren't treated badly they wouldn't be so fused into the culture but more standalone?

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carib2 View Post
    Was I being lied to all my life that Indians who went to the Caribbean suffered from forced labour and were treated like animals? Of course they weren't enduring the hardship that Africans faced but nevertheless they were treated badly too.

    Surely if Indians weren't treated badly they wouldn't be so fused into the culture but more standalone?
    They were indentured laborers who were paid for their work.
    99% of those who came to Trinidad did not want to go back to India at the end of their indentureship and many were offered farming land as an incentive to stay and took up the offer.

    They made the right choice to stay as they knew they were much better off staying in Trinidad than heading back to India.

    Africans were not paid for their work and did most of the clearing of forest, building of roads and setting up of the cane and cocoa plantations before the East Indians arrived. Thousands of Africans actually died doing all this infra-structure work.
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    Registered User Carib2 is offline
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    It goes without saying that our ancestors died during slavery...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carib2 View Post
    It goes without saying that our ancestors died during slavery...
    I don't like to hear other folks trying to compare their suffering to those of our African ancestors as its an insult.
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  8. #53
    Registered User bktrini305's Avatar bktrini305 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheEducator View Post
    Not exactly true. Watch this
    i keep posting this. its a really nice documentary but nobody listens. When Nani start to bawl for she chirren boy.

    but anyway i think i'm done. Nobody is convincing anybody of anything.
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    Earth Angel dollbabi's Avatar dollbabi is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socapro View Post
    Lame argument.

    If names were lost or languages were lost that is because those who lost them CHOSE not to past on names and not to practice speaking their original language and to teach it to their children.

    I am also aware than some Indians married Africans and many could have changed their surname to the man's because of marriage. That again is choice.

    That is not suffering as far as I am concerned as that is down to choice rather than to being prohibited from speaking your native language, religion and culture and having your surname being changed to the slave masters as soon as you landed in the Caribbean as the Africans routinely had to endure.

    You can't compare what East Indians went thru to what Africans had to go thru for centuries before the Indians came to the Caribbean and itís an insult and a disrespect to Africans to even make the comparison.

    PS:
    Btw I have all races in my family so I am not trying to persecute any other race here by speaking the truth.
    It's a fact, not an argument. There were languages and surnames lost particularly in islands where their population was much smaller.

    Stop comparing then. The only person making comparisons to Africans is you. Not sure why as the experiences are specific to each group. What is lame is your desperate need to compare the two rather than concentrate on Africans since that is supposedly your focus.

    Again, please focus on the African experience and the ways to move ahead. Stop attempting to rewrite and minimize the Indian experience to elevate your own. It reeks of an inferiority complex.

  10. #55
    Earth Angel dollbabi's Avatar dollbabi is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by bktrini305 View Post
    i keep posting this. its a really nice documentary but nobody listens. When Nani start to bawl for she chirren boy.

    but anyway i think i'm done. Nobody is convincing anybody of anything.
    Yes, this is good documentary, but don't expect some people to watch it. Some prefer to remain ignorant.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by dollbabi View Post
    It's a fact, not an argument. There were languages and surnames lost particularly in islands where their population was much smaller.

    Stop comparing then. The only person making comparisons to Africans is you. Not sure why as the experiences are specific to each group. What is lame is your desperate need to compare the two rather than concentrate on Africans since that is supposedly your focus.

    Again, please focus on the African experience and the ways to move ahead. Stop attempting to rewrite and minimize the Indian experience to elevate your own. It reeks of an inferiority complex.
    You are being very presumption my love.

    I have all races in my family so I can concentrate on any race I decide to.

    The title of this thread is "What are the main DIFFERENCES between Africans & Indians who came to the Caribbean?" It is not titled "What are the main SIMILARITIES between Africans & Indians who came to the Caribbean?"

    And in case you missed it I highlighted the differences to point out exactly why one group has been progressing much more quickly than the other and then I suggested solutions for the Africans especially in T&T to move forward.

    It seems that you do convenient reading because if you had read the first few posts I made in this thread then you would have understood the purpose of this thread and realized that I already pointed out solutions to the problem just as you are suggesting I do now.

    The purpose of this thread was not to complain as you put it but to show why the African race in T&T has been losing out and to point to the remedy.

    I don't create threads to complain for complaining sake like most folks around here do my love. I actually try to clearly identify the reason for a problem and then I suggest what I view as the logical solution(s).
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    Quote Originally Posted by bktrini305 View Post
    i keep posting this. its a really nice documentary but nobody listens. When Nani start to bawl for she chirren boy.

    but anyway i think i'm done. Nobody is convincing anybody of anything.
    I have seen that video before a few years ago in fact.

    I may watch it again as a refresher when I get the time.

    PS:
    I've noticed that many people who post here are very presumptuous about what other folks may have seen or read. It is very childish to assume you know what other people have read or watched when you don't know them personally nor do you hang with them.
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  13. #58
    Boonoonoonoos jamaicangirl's Avatar jamaicangirl is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by bktrini305 View Post
    i keep posting this. its a really nice documentary but nobody listens. When Nani start to bawl for she chirren boy.

    but anyway i think i'm done. Nobody is convincing anybody of anything.
    I don't think that the idea is that ONLY Africans suffered. I know Jamaican Whites whose ancestors came from Europe (Portugal, Ireland, etc.) and suffered and were treated like dogs.

    It does not, however, compare to the African experience.

    It is okay to acknowledge that slavery was much worse than Indentured Servitude. It does not diminish the experiences of the Whites, Indians, Arabs, Arawaks or Caribs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamaicangirl View Post
    I don't think that the idea is that ONLY Africans suffered. I know Jamaican Whites whose ancestors came from Europe (Portugal, Ireland, etc.) and suffered and were treated like dogs.

    It does not, however, compare to the African experience.

    It is okay to acknowledge that slavery was much worse than Indentured Servitude. It does not diminish the experiences of the Whites, Indians, Arabs, Arawaks or Caribs.
    That's great. However it is harmful to become hyperbolic. Yes a tiny fraction of nonwhite indentured servants (c00lies is the historical name for them) did end up owning land. And yes they were allowed to keep their culture.

    But half of them didn't survive the voyage here like africans, their children were only as likely to survive to adulthood as those of african slaves. And the fact remains that the vast majority of them never "paid off their debt" because their contracts were constantly and arbitrarily extended; thus they died slaves. In french and spanish colonies... african women's children were often freed because they were also the children of the master. This was actually not the case with indentured servants.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bktrini305 View Post
    That's great. However it is harmful to become hyperbolic. Yes a tiny fraction of nonwhite indentured servants (c00lies is the historical name for them) did end up owning land. And yes they were allowed to keep their culture.

    But half of them didn't survive the voyage here like africans, their children were only as likely to survive to adulthood as those of african slaves. And the fact remains that the vast majority of them never "paid off their debt" because their contracts were constantly and arbitrarily extended; thus they died slaves. In french and spanish colonies... african women's children were often freed because they were also the children of the master. This was actually not the case with indentured servants.
    Why is a slave master freeing his own child (who may have been a privileged house slave) be seen as a good deed towards African slaves? Do you realize what you are saying there? You are stretching!!

    Most field slaves hated the house slaves just as much as they hated the slave master some even more so. House slaves were the first Negroes who got programmed to love Europeans more than they love Africans.

    These days despite Emancipation of Slavery a high percentage of Black people are still mentally Negro House Slaves as they still love Europeans more than they love Africans..
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