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Thread: Sentenced to life without parole at the age of 16

  1. #16
    Registered User iPicong's Avatar iPicong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeng View Post
    U know why they say punitive measures don't work....after they get released over 70 percent of them go right back with in a short time span....little to no funds is allocated to successful reentry or other measures outside of prison.....with startling statistics about the amount of Americans coming in contact with the corrections (worst for minorities) what do u think?


    Its like this every year u have a steady number of new individuals coming for ice cream...but the people who got already, keep coming back also.
    You didnt answer my questions....I know how the system works now.
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    Will work for Sushi Jinjer's Avatar Jinjer is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picong View Post
    Yes that is the 16 year old boy who decided to pick up a gun to go take somebody else life.
    link?


    my thoughts...I can't feel fully sorry for her. You do the crime then serve the time....however, I think her sentence was too harsh....I agree with Richard...15 years seems so much more appropriate but i don't know the facts of the case or what prompted the judge to make that decision. She should have at least gotten a chance at parole....but...

  3. #18
    Registered User iPicong's Avatar iPicong is offline
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  4. #19
    Registered User skeng's Avatar skeng is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picong View Post
    You didnt answer my questions....I know how the system works now.
    Rehabilitation programs have been shown to stop recidivism, so yes it is far far cheaper.

  5. #20
    Registered User Appleton is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeng View Post
    Rehabilitation programs have been shown to stop recidivism, so yes it is far far cheaper.
    The trajedy is Skeng, North American prison systems were not built on a model of rehabilitation but punishment. As long as the mandate is punishing the guilty to protect the innocent this will continue. When someone goes to jail at 16 if they spend 15 years that's all their adult life in the penal system learning more sophisticated ways to be antisocial...Every effort is made to depersonalise the guilty. The public no longer sees them as human beings.

  6. #21
    Registered User iPicong's Avatar iPicong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeng View Post
    Rehabilitation programs have been shown to stop recidivism, so yes it is far far cheaper.
    How is it to be decided who can be rehabilitated and who cannot? Should they give all criminals the same treatment?
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  7. #22
    Registered User skeng's Avatar skeng is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appleton View Post
    The trajedy is Skeng, North American prison systems were not built on a model of rehabilitation but punishment. As long as the mandate is punishing the guilty to protect the innocent this will continue. When someone goes to jail at 16 if they spend 15 years that's all their adult life in the penal system learning more sophisticated ways to be antisocial...Every effort is made to depersonalise the guilty. The public no longer sees them as human beings.
    Don't think it was built that way, there was a lot of rehabilitative programs in the 40's- 50's and Truman relied heavily on empirical evidence from social scientist....politicization of the issue along with Martison's finding that no rehabilitative program works across the board precipitated a paradigm shift into more punitive measures.
    Last edited by skeng; 11-20-2009 at 09:16 AM.

  8. #23
    Will work for Sushi Jinjer's Avatar Jinjer is offline
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    Call me heartless but I can't feel sorry for him.

  9. #24
    Registered User skeng's Avatar skeng is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picong View Post
    How is it to be decided who can be rehabilitated and who cannot? Should they give all criminals the same treatment?
    No you need an array of treatments...no single program will work for everybody..a drug addict who burglarize a house to maintain an addiction is not going to be the same on all fronts with a 18 year old coming from a economically disadvantaged neighborhood and only posses 6th grade level education.

  10. #25
    Registered User Appleton is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeng View Post
    Don't think it was built that way, Through was a lot of rehabilitative programs in the 40's- 50's and Truman relied heavily on empirical evidence from social scientist....politicization of the issue along with Martison's finding that no rehabilitative program works across the board precipitated a paradigm shift into more punitive measures.
    So true..The American system was initially modelled off the British framework. Life in the UK means 30 years..ie 1 sociological generation. However, the whole notion of punitive measures has been so prevalent because it was advocated on the stance of public saftey not rehabilitating the criminal so that they can live healthy 'normal' lives. That's what led to the politicization as good ol' politicians are such opportunists they will jump on the bandwagon of anything controversial. I don't envision that this underlying ethos will shift to a framework based on rehabilitation as the public has bought into the notion that it's in their best interest that these criminals disappear from the face of society. The truth that we're more likely to be killed by a loved one becomes irrelevant.

  11. #26
    Registered User skeng's Avatar skeng is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appleton View Post
    So true..The American system was initially modelled off the British framework. Life in the UK means 30 years..ie 1 sociological generation. However, the whole notion of punitive measures has been so prevalent because it was advocated on the stance of public saftey not rehabilitating the criminal so that they can live healthy 'normal' lives. That's what led to the politicization as good ol' politicians are such opportunists they will jump on the bandwagon of anything controversial. I don't envision that this underlying ethos will shift to a framework based on rehabilitation as the public has bought into the notion that it's in their best interest that these criminals disappear from the face of society. The truth that we're more likely to be killed by a loved one becomes irrelevant.
    Yea exactly..victim advocacy, crime control became an issue of preventing crime victimization completely rather than mitigating harm, hence the valorization of the prosecutor and Governors from states that support the death penalty (check the amount of governors who became presidents before and after the death penalty moratorium in the 70's).

    I think a change is coming...because in much the same way politicians have fanned the flames of fear of crime and that everybody is a potential victim....they will do the do the same about the economic burden.

  12. #27
    Registered User iPicong's Avatar iPicong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeng View Post
    No you need an array of treatments...no single program will work for everybody..a drug addict who burglarize a house to maintain an addiction is not going to be the same on all fronts with a 18 year old coming from a economically disadvantaged neighborhood and only posses 6th grade level education.
    I do believe in giving people chances but I believe for certain crimes there are no 2nd chances...........I think if you look at the background of a lot of criminals you will find that they dont believe in following societies rules........it starts from youth and continues into adulthood.........I do believe in targeting youths and trying to fix the problems then........once you hit a certain age their is no chance of rehabilitation...........
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  13. #28
    Registered User skeng's Avatar skeng is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picong View Post
    I do believe in giving people chances but I believe for certain crimes there are no 2nd chances...........I think if you look at the background of a lot of criminals you will find that they dont believe in following societies rules........it starts from youth and continues into adulthood.........I do believe in targeting youths and trying to fix the problems then........once you hit a certain age their is no chance of rehabilitation...........
    This is not about eliminating prisons....it as been shown that the vast majority of prisoners have limited education, over half were using some drugs, then significant amounts have some form of mental problems....not having anything in place in prison are outside to rectify those problems combined with stigma and antisocial behavior learnt while incarcerated will only create a revolving door.
    Last edited by skeng; 11-20-2009 at 09:39 AM.

  14. #29
    Registered User Appleton is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    To all the bleeding heart members

    GOD FORBID one of your family members get killed by one of these criminals . I hope you are going to be this forgiving .

    I got kids and guns in the house and when my son and daughter turn 13 I will be taking them to the range and teach them how to shoot . But if them murder someone donít expect to see me crying on TV or saying HE/SHE was ah good child . Take yuh ass to jail . Because I am doing my best to teach my children right from wrong .

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    You are assuming that I have not lost a loved one by a criminal...The difference is I don't disconnect them as human beings. The thing that many people don't want to accept is that social deviance is a by-product of the failure of social institutions. When it's biological then a medical determination is made and that's when we qualify people as insane. They are still people..if it takes a village to raise a child...what caused a 'monster to be created?

  15. #30
    Registered User iPicong's Avatar iPicong is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeng View Post
    This is not about eliminating prisons....it as been shown the vast majority of prisoners have limited education, over half were using some drugs, then significant amount have some form of mental problems....not having anything in place in prison are outside to rectify those problems combined with stigma and antisocial behavior learnt while incarcerated will only create a revolving door.
    that goes back to my point......I believe its better to target youths in an attempt to send them down the right path.........education is the key.........
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