IslandMix - Soca, Reggae, Zouk and Caribbean Entertainment

for the most part ive been busting unfair chops in this thread...

but on the real.....the thing that i dont like is the way hawks is playing with the numbers painting a picture that looks like they have been LOSING 60k a year out of their pockets to put a band on the road and have been getting nothing in return while the city is making 300 million in profits.

im not saying that WIADCA and the CITY are treating the bands completely fair but at the same time i dont think their abuse is as bad as they make it seem.

The tone of HAWKS thread is that it basically comes down to money. basically, what they are saying is that they arent going to participate unless they get paid because without their participation and the participation of other bands there will be NO parade. If i am reading into this correctly, HAWKS doesnt want the city to capitalize on them.

i know alot goes into putting on this "show" MOST people work for free or a very VERY small fee to make the parade go on. most folks do it for the LOVE of our west indian culture.

With regards to the cost of the costume, the money you mentioned is start up cash needed that gets made back once the costume is completed and sold. Why not take the deposit money and BUY all the needed supplies for the costume instead of buying the materials up front? yeah you will need to buy the samples but once you start getting orders you will be fine. A big band like hawks is experienced enough to know how many costumes they will need to make and by this point should know how to make them without losing money from unsold costumes. if the costume costs 200 retail, it probably costs about 100 to make. the extra hundred should be used to offset unsold costumes, costumes that need extra material, etc.

Again, you are making way too much sense for most to understand....at the end of the day, Hawks, and any other bands need to point back the finger at their management...they have dropped the ball !

WTF..no performers on the floats...the the thing about nudity which makes no damn sense...labor day is known for near naked people..im supposed to be in the parade this year and if its wack im gonna be vexed till de end...and that day is my birthday so if anything is ruined i will be pissed.

The major difference between the puerto rican day parade and the carnival is that U CAN ACTUALLY SEE THE PARADE AT THE PUERTO RICAN PARADE BUT U CAN SEE SH*T AT THE CARNIVAL. For those of us that are spectators behind the police line this is a problem at the carnival. It is very annoying having to constantly move over so that people can jump over the police line to go jump in a band. I've seen enough arguments and fights break out when the uncivilized jumper wants to jump over the bar but the spectator wont let them through. With too many people on the parkway its hard to see any of the costumed bands. sometimes u cant even see some of the large ones.

There were instances where someone would come and stand right in front of me knowing damn well i can't see through them. i dont have superman vision.
this is where i have to get vocal and tell them to move. first i ask kindly but when i see dont dont want to move or listen, thats when an argument is going to start. WHAT HEAVY POLICE PRESENT?? when i need them to move these people they're no where to be found but if i shoot a gun in the air, all of a sudden they would appear.

JUMPERS NEED TO STOP BEING FRIGGNG RUDE AND LET OTHERS WATCH THE PARADE WITHOUT BEING HARRASS TO LET THEM THROUGH TO JUMP OVER THE BAR. DO THAT SH*T AT THE END OF THE BLOCK. THE JUMP UP ZONE IS AT FLATBUSH AVE. GO DOWN THERE AND WAIT FOR THE FRIGGING BAND TO COME DOWN TO JUMP UP IN. THE CARNIVAL ASSOCIATION NEED TO WORK ON CROWN CONTROL. IN MY OPINION THE POLICE SLACK OFF OVER THE YEARS. MAYBE POLICE PRESENCE IS HEAVY ALONG CERTAIN PARTS OF THE PARKWAY CAUSE WHERE I BE, ITS NOT THE HEAVY. WHEN THE PARADE FIRST START, WE SEE POLICE BUT GIVE IT ABOUT AN HOUR, WE DONT SEE NONE.

That's the only beef I have with the carnival. Sorry but I had to vent.

I guess your vexation got the best of your speed typing. Anyhow, i do agree with much you have said, the one thing i do not like about it also is seeing the ghetto NYPD helicopter flying really low as if its Vietnam or some shit, i also ask my self the question, if those idiots in that very same helicopter should hit a air pocket or get hit by a strong cross wind that can push them into the buildings or even worst, experience as sudden hydrolic failure, how are they going to do an emergency landing? Are they going to land on the peoples heads? and is flying so low really that neccassary, i don't care if your the police, the FAA rules and regulations applies to all airborne aircraft that they must remain at least 1,000 ft above the highest obstacle in a congested area and these idiots do not be at a 1,000ft. I think that matter should also be addressed. Anyhow, to think they are going to move this thing on FLATBUSH ave where EASTERN PKWY is not even that wide enough to hold so much people, its a disaster in the making.

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Here it is in a nutshell:

Truck (Float): $15k Per Truck
Driver
Gas
Flatbed
Construction (Labor)
Material (Studs etc)
Generator
Gas for generator (Diesel)
Banners
DJ
Sound System
Liability Insurance
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Manufacturer Cost Price of Costumes: $40k
This is very dependent on the size of your band. The above is for a large band
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Refreshments for Masqueraders (Customer Service)
$3k
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Security for Masqueraders
$2k
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Marketing Cost: Lets just say if you do not have a name, this component will sink you even further!
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Permit Cost to WIADCA % of monies of whatever sponsor you bring in, essentially extortion. According to them, they have the right to the parkway for that day, thus they insist that they can censor what goes on.

Ok, sum it up: $60k. Keep in mind we did not include the over head that you will have to endure in having a MAS camp (Stipends for workers, Electricity & Rent/Mortgage, Phone etc). Also realize that whatever sponsorship you get will be taxed by WIADCA. The year we had two trucks was a tremendous cost.

Let take it a step further, depending on how you manage your business, once you engaged in a contract for the aforementioned, you are $60k in, folks want to be paid. At the beginning of the season, you drop 30K to start.

Now people in this thread that consider themselves an authority without going through this exercise and not ask as you have done, will tell you the following, ok sponsorship + selling costumes should cover your cost. So let me answer that before they even ask... What investment will you make in such a product as carnival with that kind of money, knowing that you have a 85% chance of coming up significantly short, and a 10% chance of breaking even and 5% chance of ending up in the black? So ask your trading desk friend what he will do in that situation. It would appear to the logical person that you have better ways to make your investment, like perhaps something for the community.

Lastly, our approach is simple, those who benefit from activities who wish to see it thrive should incur some of the work and become a partner in the development and sustaining of the infrastructure. Even if the City makes $1 off this carnival some % should be reinvested back into the communities that produce it. Does that make some sort of sense. The notion that we should send out letters and request monies from supporters is bewildering to me, when they support us in so many ways already (purchasing the costumes, events etc). That approach is the equivalent of asking the actors of a Broadway show to stand outside of 42nd street day after day and beg for public support while the show promoters are rolling in the cash. The last time I checked, slavery was over some 400 years ago. "Release the chain"

Yuh still want to bring a band? If you do, I would tell you, take that 30K and go buy some real estate, there is plenty of blood on the streets.

Respect

thanks for the breakdown. it seems like most of the cost comes from making the mas. doesnt the price people pay for their costume more than cover the cost to make the costumes?

I think the cost of the costume may pay for the costumes, but what about the trucks, the DJ's, maintaining the mas camps (rent, con ed,) all a day costs money dred...

dont get me wrong...i dont think Hawks and the other big bands walk away with any big profits. i just dont think that they lose as much as we are led to believe. should they lose anything.....NO! at the end of the day i am willing to bet that they ATLEAST end up even.

from an investment point of view i dont think bringing a band is the best way to go. As far as celbrating our culture and enjoying carnival i think it is MORE than worth it!

i dont think bringing a band should be considered an investment.

Of the ones that are purchased yes, remember all your manufacturing is done up front, you make 1000 costumes and 1 sell you have 999 collecting dust...a sunk investment. Not to mention that it will not cover all other infrastructure cost. Any way you slice and dice it, it is a difficult craft to make it work!

Worth it to whom? Those of us who come out once a year jump up have a good time with money still left in our pockets?? Of course to US its worth it, but to those who put their blood, sweat, and tears into this all year round, its a slap in the face to know how much $$ being generated and yet you're still forced to be begging and throwing bar b ques just to get some cash..

Check out the thread Hawks just posted on Sesame Flyers..

it is more than worth it for the people the make the mas and participate in the carnival. these people do it because they LOVE what they do.

So spending anywhere from 60k-200k should just be done for a jump? Besides the cultural aspect, can you explain to me how that is worth it? If it is about the culture, there is a frigin carnival just about in every city world wide...No need for us to keep losing $$, the celebrations conintue, just not off of our sweat any longer.