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Thread: Putting words into Action

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    Agent III1VI Phil's Avatar Phil is offline
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    Putting words into Action

    [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Sep-10-01 AT 11:22 AM (EST)[/font][p]Taking steps towards TRUE independence and NOT dependence on Europe and the WTO.


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/africa/newsid_1534000/1534934.stm

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1506000/1506877.stm



  2. #2
    Junior Member PnutPunch is offline
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    RE: Putting words into Action

    Independence is a grand thing. And us having the right to do business transactions which whatever country overseas in the final judgement should belong to a particular Islands decision. BUT, BUT, BUT.. We also have to make smart decisions and do what is best for our own interest. It also is not good policy on our behalf to do any transactions with a terroristic government regime with countries especially like Libya, Iraq etc.
    Because the truth is at the end of the day, all our islands with exception to Cuba are considered 'Americas'.. not 'Africas' or 'Middle East', and although we have the right to cut our colonial ties with Europa, It would be a foolish thing to fund or support a terrorist government in any way, shape, or form. Remember if the ##### ever did hit the fan we are all considered American, and I feel alot safer under the Americans than having to seek any sort of asylum with an unpredictable leader such as Khadafi!

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    IMIX ATTORNEY GENERAL Trinibaje's Avatar Trinibaje is offline
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    RE: Putting words into Action

    Its about time members of Caricom start negociating and looking towards other markets. Lets not forget that even though the Clinton Admistration was supposed to be "our friend", it was his admistration that supported Chiquita and the whole WTO bananas issue (that is why we should not by Chiquita bananas if you can help it) Doing business with Libya does not necessarily equate to funding a terrorist government... IT IS ONLY BANANAS FOR GOODNESS SAKE)what it does equate to is putting food on the table for the countries whose economies depend on banana export.

    I say lets do business with Cuba too.. that does not mean we are communist either... ##### CANADA is Cuba's largest trading partner... Nations of Caricom cannot be afraid of trading or doing business with these so-called terrorist countries becase the E.U. or America might get pissed off...

    Again that is why we need to stand united. Lets support our sister islands, Dominica, St. Lucia, St. Vincent.... sell their bananas to whom ever they so please...

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    Blessed ILanDFnTsY's Avatar ILanDFnTsY is offline
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    RE: Putting words into Action

    Doing business with Libya
    >does not necessarily equate to
    >funding a terrorist government... IT
    >IS ONLY BANANAS FOR GOODNESS
    >SAKE)what it does equate to
    >is putting food on the
    >table for the countries whose
    >economies depend on banana export.

    You and I may see it as only bananas, but in politics,is anything ever that cut & dry?

    >I say lets do business with
    >Cuba too.. that does not
    >mean we are communist either...
    >##### CANADA is Cuba's largest
    >trading partner... Nations of
    >Caricom cannot be afraid of
    >trading or doing business with
    >these so-called terrorist countries becase
    >the E.U. or America might
    >get pissed off...

    The Nations of Caricom have every right to be afraid, b/c while it may be to their short term benefit to do business with undesireable governments, in the long term alienating the United States and Europe can in no way benefit Caricom.

    Keep in mind that the greater portions of the debts owed by Caricom nations are to the US and European nations. When push comes to shove, do you think that Cuba is in a financial position to bail out the Caricom countries. Do you honestly believe that a Libyan dictator that has little regard for his own people will take the Caribbean under it's wing in times of disasters? (hurricanes, volcanoes, etc.) As unfortunate and frustrating as it may be, you can't bite the hand that feeds you in the interest of short term goals.

    CARICOM nations also can't be compared to Canada in regards to trading policies, b/c financially they are on two different planes.

    Blessings!!!

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    Agent III1VI Phil's Avatar Phil is offline
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    RE: Putting words into Action

    [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Sep-10-01 AT 01:49 PM (EST)[/font][p]You make a valid point, but let's not pretend that the US and Europe don't dabble into other country's internal affairs and don't perform acts of terrorism(Who do you think trained these terrorist leaders and gave them the weapons? It didn't come out of thin air). Everybody does it. I don't agree with some of Ghadafi's policies myself, but the US is far from angelic. Your statement about biting the hand that feeds you is also a good point and just what I'm trying to get at. Get to a point that you can feed yourself and you won't have to depend on someone else to feed you.
    The debts that US and Europe claim to be owed by developing countries shouldn't even be considered debts. Europe and America have plundard developing country's resources and used their people as slave labor for years and are still doing it. There is a discussion to cancel that debt in the name of reparations for slavery and exploitation of black peoples.
    And the false notion of being part of the Americas is just that .....false, if ever the EU needed back up because of trouble spots in South America or the Caribbean from former colonies, who do u think the US would back,...Brazil? Columbia? Greneda? We are all used at the disposal of western govts.

    Example of exploitation...
    I had a conversation one day with an American executive from a Scottish mining company. He admitted to me sometimes private mercenary companies are hired out by corporations to destablize govts for the interests of western business. In the same conversation He was justifying trading lemons and rice from the Caribbean for DIAMONDS in Sierra Leone. He explained the people are in war, so all they want is something to eat. This way they don't have to purchase the diamonds at the fair price. He justified it by saying, "some companies just go in and take the diamonds and don't offer them anything(being that they don't have a stable govt.) at least we give them rice and lemons."

    Like you said earlier, nothing in politics is cut and dry. Even though this is more business than politics.


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    Blessed ILanDFnTsY's Avatar ILanDFnTsY is offline
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    RE: Putting words into Action

    I agree w/ you and made that point just to point out that until we are in a better position financially we have to thread lightly. Politics itself is a business and is how our world revolves. I would never imply the innocence of Europe or the U.S., I only want to emphasise that the Caribbean, as it stands today, must make enemies wisely and chose allies selectively. All the while keeping our eyes on the goal of self sufficiency.


    Blessings!!!

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    IMIX ATTORNEY GENERAL Trinibaje's Avatar Trinibaje is offline
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    RE: Putting words into Action

    At times the lines between Politics and Economics becomes blurred and there are a lot of grey areas, however for developing countries must put economics first. Do you really think that the United States is going sanction St. Lucia or take aid away from it because it sell Bananas to Libya, when they have granted the world's worst human rights violater, CHINA, most favored nation status????? again Economics vs. Politics... Let them critize the leaders of Dominica and St. Lucia for visiting Quadafi, but that is all they can do... just like they have critized Trinidad, Barbados, Jamaica and Venezuela for courting Fidel Castro...

    Lets not bite the hands at feed us???? Has the U.S. fed St. Lucia, Dominica, St. Vincent etc.... HELL NO... quite contrary, it was President Clinton who backed the Central American Countries in their fight against these countries on the WTO banana issue... in fact it is the U.S. who is responsible taking the bread off these countries table....

    Do you really think that the U.S. will supply the kind of Aid needed if a natural disaster such as a hurricane or volcano struck the Caribbean nations? They sure did not do it for Monsterrat, as a matter of fact the U.S. took the dogs before they took the people...


  8. #8
    Junior Member PnutPunch is offline
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    RE: Putting words into Action

    Do you not think that Khadafi then, if given the power to buy up all the banana imports from the west indies that he would not also be exploiting us too? He has a track record of helping out impoverished countries in Africa for the benefit of the Libyan govt, rather that be oil or diamonds for example. This is kind of a no win, win situation for us in the fact that we'll get pimped by the USA ond the WTO, but at the same time Libya has alterior motives for sure. Why do we have to limit our source of trade, WE should seek out our own partners and maybe the answer is to trade with reputable countries that do not benefit from our goods with alterior motives. What about countries that are not at all part of this whole mess like Brazil, Japan, Australia. Canada has been very good to us as compared to the states, look at Cuba.

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    IMIX ATTORNEY GENERAL Trinibaje's Avatar Trinibaje is offline
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    RE: Putting words into Action

    I understand the concerns, however those countries are already getting their bananas from the Caribbean's number one competitor... Nicaragua, Hondurous.... and whereever else Chiquita has its farms... Plus I am not that concerned of exploitation because bananas, although important to the countries that produce them, its not a commodity like oil and diamonds that bring out the greed in human nature.... plus for what is Quadafi going to use as his smoking gun to begin this exploitation??? when is it Dominica and St. Lucia etc have that he can manipulate???

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    Agent III1VI Phil's Avatar Phil is offline
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    RE: Putting words into Action


    No one is saying you have to limit your trade to anyone. Of course you would not just trade with Libya alone, but other countries as well. You can trade with everyone if you like. It's just that if you let people dictate who you trade with, they will dictate your price and how you run your house. Look...people need to open their eyes. Brazil, Japan, Australia and Canada are not angels. No country is. Stop giving in the media brainwashing. Brazil oppresses it's own people. Japan has human rights violations against Chinese and Taiwan(torture, mutilation, firing squad, etc.) Australia oppresses the aboriginal peoples. I know of a Canadian corporation in Vancouver that helped sponsor the diamond war in Sierra Leone and the list goes on. Trading for your own interests doesn't make you subject to that govt. Ghadify(I'll never spell this right) used to sell oil to the US. Most govts are korrupt or screwed up in one way or another. Economics and politics is just like monopoly, chess, and gambling, there are winners and losers. Don't be anyone's pawn be a player.

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    IMIX ATTORNEY GENERAL Trinibaje's Avatar Trinibaje is offline
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    RE: Putting words into Action

    Phil-

    I think you are arguing to yourself, I absolutely agree with you read my first post....


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    Agent III1VI Phil's Avatar Phil is offline
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    RE: Putting words into Action


    Not really my friend...

    My message was supposed to go under PnutPunches box.
    I clicked the wrong reply. My bad.

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    An Ivy of Class classyivy1's Avatar classyivy1 is offline
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    RE: Putting words into Action

    I agree that the countries of the Caribbean should be able to choose who they do business with. Why should we allow the US or any other nation to dictate who we do business with. Are we ever capable of voicing our opposition to the US dealing with corrupt governments and nations? And yes, I do not believe that there are governments out there without blood on their hands. If Libya wants to buy our bananas at fair market value, then so be it. Caribbean banana farmers need to eat and if this puts food on their tables I am all for it. I do not know what Qaadafi's motivation is but as of right now it seems positive. Maybe this is his way of showing that he is not the tyrant that he has been shown to be. The US has shown that they do not support the Caribbean banana farmers.

    Honestly I have to admit that I think a lot of the information that we hear about some of these nations is propoganda. I truly cannot see how a "Super-Power" nation such as the US can cower from nations such as Cuba, Libya, etc. Who knows what injustices have been performed by the US in these nations.

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    socacds.com ichard is offline
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    RE: Putting words into Action

    yeah yeah caribbean countries should be able to choose who they want to negotiate with...blah blah

    But im not even considering that. This banana thing is the most rediculous thing ive ever heard. How can someone even consider selling all of something they produce to foreigners (though it has been done already). What are you suppose to feed yourself with now? You now have to go find an exporter of that produce (probably in cheaper quality, since everybody buyin the good ones and you have to afford shipping)

    Then there is meeting quotas which puts the country under stress in times where they have no control over it (eg. drought). The country becomes more dependent by this transaction....depending on themselves to produce, and exporters, and buyers to pay. Its also bad for the buyers, cause they are now dependent on the producer. So its like a global f*ckin effect when sometin goes wrong with the production, the buying country is effected (hunger, by-products suffer) and who the f*ck knows whoelse is affected by this.

    Im all for indepence, supplyin thyself and livin off thyself...if i cant produce oil...then i live without oil...no cars, etc....but bigger countries will send us oil so we can buy their cars..YEAAHHH!!! and have to keep goin back for more and more oil...YEAAHHH!!! meanin more money fuh dem

    Yeah i could go off topic more n more n go on whole day...but nah
    call me radical, crazy, ignorant...whateva...but dats me..plain as day

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    Junior Member PnutPunch is offline
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    RE: Putting words into Action

    How can you be a "player" when you do not have the resources or the economic funding to do so? just curious, cause last time I checked we were no superpowers by no means which kind of automatically makes all of us a bunch of "pawns" doesn't it?

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