Hi everybody

I know this is a Caribbean website, but I have a question to the Trinis in particular... How many of you know patois (different degrees: know how to speak it fluently, could say a few words, or what)? Did your parents teach you (hardly the case in Trini) or what?

I remember in that big blue book we used in Standard Five for Social Studies (and elsewhere) that people in Trinidad also speak a French patois. No-one in my family speaks it, but I have learnt it from some friends from the French West Indies.

The patois spoken in the FWI, Haiti, Dominica and St Lucia all related, but I want to know about the TRUE trini patois that has all but died out. Anything anyone have to say about that?

P.S. I would be interested in contacting people in Trinidad (or born in Trinidad) who speak Patois fairly well.

Latas!

Well I interested too. I remember posting something about this before. From what I have been told it pretty much dies out because parents would use it to speak to each other so de children wouldn't understand...so slowly through the generations it died off...I know my mom and aunt say they only know a few words...I know when I moved down here I was very confused when I began to socialize with Jamaicans...and they refer to their dialect as patois

For real the jamaican dialect is called Patois too. I guess it is the context that helps to understand which "patois" people are talking about.

But what words ur mom and aunt know/say? I always eager to learn.

Yuh know what...they just as bad as de rest cuz dey does use it to talk to each other if they doh want we to understand... vicious cycle...

with all due respect (and i mean that sincerely, for real)
i have heard people now say that to use the term "patois" is negative, because it implies a "bastardized" version of the original language. instead i see language scholars use the term "jamaican english" or "caribbean english" instead. and there some people distinguish between patois, creole and pidgin language.

for example, this is what i found as a definition - what do others think?

The noun "patois" has 2 senses in WordNet.

1. cant, jargon, slang, lingo, argot, patois, vernacular -- (a characteristic language of a particular group (as among thieves); "they don't speak our lingo")
2. patois -- (a regional dialect of a language (especially French); usually considered substandard)

lol Yep my parents use to speak it all the time thinking I did not know what they were talking about. However, when I speak it or spanish to my son he gets very upset.

well i don't remember if my great grandmother spoke french patois,
but there are certain areas where you can definitely see the french influence on the island....

like village names "Les Coteaux"
and even some of the words we use today, for instance:
Macafouchette - hurriedly cooked food
Mauvais langue (movay-lang) - to be bad mouthed
Toute bagaille la (toot-bag-eye-lah) - everything
Comess - confusion
Lambase - to verbally or physically attack someone

i'm sure there are hundreds more.....

Yep, my grandparents are fluent Patois speakers. And as I know it, the definition of Patois is "broken French". My mother and aunts and others can understand it better than they can speak it. But they can still speak it better than me. I think it is more prevelant in the east of Trinidad, or in the country as some "Town" people will call us.

Since coming to London, I have regretted not learning Patois from my grandmother. I only know simple greetings (don't ask me to spell it on this website...lol)

However, one of my flatmates is from France, and since meeting her and talking to her I've realised that alot of the things we take for granted as "trini" talk, are actually words in french! I have since endeavored to recall as much french based words and terms as I can to run by her, so she can tell me if they are actually french, or words/terms we've made up. So far here's what I've gathered:

Champs Fleurs
La Florissante
Matelot (May-low)
Ellerslie
Grande Riviere
Mt D'Or
Mt Lambert (Lam-beer)
Boissierre (in Maraval)
Bois (as in Papa Bois, folklore character) means "wood/forest"
La Fillette
Pointe-a-Pierre
Jouvert means "breaking of dawn"
La Reine Riviere
Bourg Malatresse
Blanchisseusse
Dimanche Grande
Most of the Folklore characters are Patois, but their spelling relates to a french word which applies to what the character represents.
I think Laventille and Morvant are as well, will have to ask her though.

As I remember others, and get more info from my friend I'll post them.

What about gatay menage ...I use to hear that plenty...something to do with being miserable?

This is all very interesting. As I said I speak patois too; I actually got interested in it when I travelled to Guadeloupe and fell in love with the zouk. To understand the zouk (which is sung in patois (or "créole") ) I had to learn the language.

So, redtrinigirl, are your grandparents still alive? Would they be interested in talking to me sometime? I know my father met someone just the other day (July 2004) who speaks patois, but unfortunately is losing it because he has no-one to speak it to.

And as far as the gatay menage, I can't think what that means at all... it might be gadé (regarder) look... but that ay is pronounced as "i" or as they "ay" as in day? What is the context? u said something about mishief??

I don´t speak it, but understand a little beacue I learned French and Spanish. I nterestingly enough, my Mauritian friends understand it!

de ay pronounce like day...like any time I was crying or whinin or something so she would call me gatay menage (however yuh spell it)

My granny speaks a little and her mother my great grandmother spoke it fluently. I grew up hearing a lot of it with the older generation, but it was never passed down. I know some words because of my FWI friend.

I remember seeing an article in either the Trinidad Guardian or Express a few months ago where there was a conference of all the french-speaking patois countries in the Caribbean. I also remember seeing features on a local community that lived in the Northern Range in Trinidad. The community was very rural, and the language, though not as prevalent, was still in existence. The people were also mixed, supposedly with some French influence. Also, these people still sang Christmas carols in French patois.

Ok, okay... Making sense now. Probably meant "you spoilt brat." In French, "un enfant gaté" translates as "a spoilt child." But what the ménage there means I don't know.