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DSP · 02-07-2012, 02:35 PM

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Men who have sex with drunken women will be at risk of being convicted of rape under new laws to be considered by ministers.

The legal shake-up would mean a woman would be considered incapable of giving consent to sex if she had been drinking heavily.

Police would be asked to carry out blood and urine tests on a woman who complained of rape to find out how much alcohol is in her body. They would then used "back calculations" to work out how drunk she was at the time of the alleged attack.

A "drink and sex limit" would sweep away the confusion and controversy in the courts surrounding the issue of when a man accused of rape can claim he believed a woman gave her consent to sex.

But it would open the way to prosecutions of husbands or regular boyfriends who have sex with drunken wives or partners as well as fierce arguments over medical evidence and real levels of intoxication of alleged victims.

A consultation document is to be published by the Home Office in the New Year that will lay down the basis for new laws and try to meet Labour's aim of forcing up numbers of rape convictions. At present only one rape accusation in 20 ends in a conviction and ministers are convinced that means rapists are getting away with it.

Almost all disputed rape cases are of "partner", "acquaintance" or "date" rape in which both parties were known to each other before the alleged attack happened.

A rape law making it an offence to have sex with a woman who has reached a set level of drunkeness is to be proposed by the Home Office committee that four years ago recommended the disastrous reclassification of cannabis that made possessing the drug less of a crime.

The Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs is to report next month suggesting the use of medical tests and back calculation.

A study carried out last month for the Association of Chief Police Officers suggested that a women could be expected to show 'marked intoxication levels' after drinking the equivalent of two bottles of wine.

It found that in 120 cases of sexual assault examined by researchers, in 119 cases the woman had been drinking.

But because of "marked time delays between the collection of samples and the incident", alcohol could be detected by tests in only 62, just over half, of the cases. Blood tests can find alcohol in the body 24 hours after drinking and urine tests after 72 hours.

The ACPO research found that in 31 cases alcohol levels at the time of the incident could be estimated by "back-calculating".

It said it was "significant" that 22 cases showed the woman had 200 milligrams of alcohol for every 100 millilitres of blood.

This level is equivalent to eight 175 milliletre pub "standard" glasses of wine, or two and a half times the drink driving limit.

But the ACPO report warned that there are "caveats about the approximate nature of the calculations".

Back calculations usually work on the basis that the body breaks down one unit of alcohol - half a pub standard glass of wine - every hour. However, alcohol breaks up in different bodies at different rates.

The ACPO report said: "If one considers a social drinker, one could expect marked intoxication at levels of 200 milligrams per 100 millilitres and symptoms could include reduced inhibitions, disorientation, impaired judgement and co-ordination, drowsiness, memory loss and, at higher levels, unconsciousness."

The law already suggests that a woman who is asleep or unconscious is less likely to have consented to sex. Since 2003, a man accused of rape has had to show he had "reasonable" grounds for believing a woman consented. Before then, he had only to demonstrate that he believed she had consented.

Solicitor General Mike O'Brien is considering the drink and sex limit among proposals for new rules that could also include fresh guidance for juries on matters of consent and the right for defendants to call experts on rape who would explain to juries how damaging to a victim the offence is.

A Home Office spokesman confirmed yesterday that the Advisory Council has produced a report and added: "The results will be published in the New Year. It will then be for ministers to decide what may be the right policies to take forward."

But criminologist Dr David Green of the Civitas think tank said: "They are trying to introduce scientific certainties where there are no scientific certainties. The pretence that there can be certainty is likely to lead to miscarriages of justice.

"It is much better to leave these things to the good sense of juries to decide." The legal pitfalls around rape and alcohol were powerfully illustrated in a landmark case last year in which a security guard had sex with the 21-year- old woman student while she was lying drunk and unconscious in a corridor outside her flat in a university hall of residence.

Even though the security guard, 20-year-old Ryairi Dougal, was a stranger to the woman, a judge at Swansea Crown Court instructed the jury to bring in a not guilty verdict because she could not remember whether she had given consent.

"Drunken consent is still consent," Mr Justice Roderick Evans told the jury.

Case study: Ryairi Dougal was cleared of rape in a landmark case last year because his alleged victim was too drunk to recall events.

The security guard had sex with the student while she was lying drunk and unconscious in a corridor outside her flat in Aberystwyth University.

The case hinged on whether the 21-year-old he was accused of assaulting had consented to sex.

Swansea Crown Court was told by the woman there was "no way" she would have agreed, but when questioned by the defence, she acknowledged she could not remember anything and therefore could not definitively say if she had consented or not.

Even though 20-year-old Mr Dougal was a stranger to the woman, the judge told the jury to bring in a not guilty verdict because she could not remember whether she had given consent.

Hello BKLYN · 02-07-2012, 02:40 PM

i thought this was the law already

Gladiator · 02-07-2012, 02:40 PM

hmm so how does that work with drunken men who have sex with sober women? She will be convicted of rape ?

bhalistix · 02-07-2012, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by hello bklyn

i thought this was the law already

+1

T-MAKAA · 02-07-2012, 03:19 PM

So u mean to tell me a person who gets drunk cant control their decision making when it comes to sex?

BABYLOC · 02-07-2012, 03:25 PM

i dont know about this..i mean, how can a man be expected to know when a woman is too drunk to consent?

some situations are a given..like you should know better than pick up an unconcious woman..lol...but some women are fully functional..(in a black out stage)..seem perfectly fine, but cant remember shiz the next day..

how is a man supposed to know?

women need to take some responsiblity and stop crying foul all the time! as a woman, you know you are a "weaker" sex and must always make sure to protect yourself at all times..you cant be passed out in your hallway and just expect everything to be all right!

Capitaine · 02-07-2012, 03:30 PM

Gladiator · 02-07-2012, 03:32 PM

lol so Babyloc let me ask you since you the first imix woman with courage to post

:

if you meet a man and he gets intoxicated, however you remain sober...yall have sex...now should YOU be convicted of rape ?

..because this is the same argument just flipping the genders.

BABYLOC · 02-07-2012, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Gladiator

lol so Babyloc let me ask you since you the first imix woman with courage to post

:

if you meet a man and he gets intoxicated, however you remain sober...yall have sex...now should YOU be convicted of rape ?

..because this is the same argument just flipping the genders.

..i aint having sex with no dude that wasnt at my house when i left..and if he too drunk when i get there.or when we get hom..he better have on note attached to his draws saying "do not touch"..and he better hope im sober enough to read it or care about it..

Gladiator · 02-07-2012, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by BABYLOC

..i aint having sex with no dude that wasnt at my house when i left..and if he too drunk when i get there.or when we get hom..he better have on note attached to his draws saying "do not touch"..and he better hope im sober enough to read it or care about it..

so i guess you will possibly be convicted of rape under this new law

notorious saga · 02-07-2012, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by BABYLOC

i dont know about this..i mean, how can a man be expected to know when a woman is too drunk to consent?

some situations are a given..like you should know better than pick up an unconcious woman..lol...but some women are fully functional..(in a black out stage)..seem perfectly fine, but cant remember shiz the next day..

how is a man supposed to know?

women need to take some responsiblity and stop crying foul all the time! as a woman, you know you are a "weaker" sex and must always make sure to protect yourself at all times..you cant be passed out in your hallway and just expect everything to be all right!

Walk wid yuh own brethalyzer tester. if they pass drop bull on them, if they fail look for another candidate.

02-07-2012, 02:40 PM	#2 (permalink)
Hello BKLYN Searching For Answers Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: brooklyn Posts: 12,738 Credits: 4,072	i thought this was the law already __________________ the healthy man does not torture others - generally it is the tortured who turn into torturers. Carl G. Jung

02-07-2012, 02:40 PM	#3 (permalink)
Gladiator Night lover Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: At the Riverwalk ! Posts: 22,634 Credits: 43,274	hmm so how does that work with drunken men who have sex with sober women? She will be convicted of rape ? __________________ "Stress is part of life, you must embrace it " "A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything" -Malcolm X

02-07-2012, 03:25 PM	#6 (permalink)
BABYLOC Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DC Posts: 7,553 Credits: 106,634	i dont know about this..i mean, how can a man be expected to know when a woman is too drunk to consent? some situations are a given..like you should know better than pick up an unconcious woman..lol...but some women are fully functional..(in a black out stage)..seem perfectly fine, but cant remember shiz the next day.. how is a man supposed to know? women need to take some responsiblity and stop crying foul all the time! as a woman, you know you are a "weaker" sex and must always make sure to protect yourself at all times..you cant be passed out in your hallway and just expect everything to be all right! __________________ nude woman- "I am strong, independent, successful, liberated and I can show my bressssssss" man watching nude women- "oh yeah girl I agree, more bress and poosy" jesus christ and god' "oh black people" devil- "no comment"--Carlos the Great!

02-07-2012, 03:30 PM	#7 (permalink)
Capitaine Banned Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 7,627 Credits: 14,832	Lol

02-07-2012, 03:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
Gladiator Night lover Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: At the Riverwalk ! Posts: 22,634 Credits: 43,274	lol so Babyloc let me ask you since you the first imix woman with courage to post : if you meet a man and he gets intoxicated, however you remain sober...yall have sex...now should YOU be convicted of rape ? ..because this is the same argument just flipping the genders. __________________ "Stress is part of life, you must embrace it " "A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything" -Malcolm X

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02-07-2012, 03:19 PM	#5 (permalink)
T-MAKAA Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bklyn Posts: 37,531 Credits: 399,871	So u mean to tell me a person who gets drunk cant control their decision making when it comes to sex?

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