IslandMix - Soca, Reggae, Zouk and Caribbean Entertainment

Rinababy · 07-12-2007, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by PTM

Here's the story to what I mentioned above:

Caribana Banks on its Name

It won't be getting financial support from the city and its mainstay performers have become competitors, but Caribana may try to get by with a little help from its name.

The question is whether there's enough currency in that 39-year-old brand to buy the troubled festival another year in Toronto.

"Of course, the name is popular enough to overcome funding problems," says Elsworth James, chair of public relations for the Caribbean Cultural Committee.

"Foreigners, tourists — everybody knows it as the jewel of the city of Toronto.

"The name Caribana isn't just a name. It's a community. It's a major piece of our cultural heritage and it's our cultural history."

What's more, James adds, the committee has already been approached by private funding partners — people who care enough about the Caribana name to want to see it endure.

It's an evocative, effective name, according to David Dunne, a marketing professor at the Joseph L. Rotman School of Management at the University of Toronto. But Caribana also carries some baggage.

"On the one side, the name has got some very nice connotations. It certainly attracts a very loyal and very enthusiastic following every year," he says.

"It's had some negative publicity within Toronto. I'm not sure to what extent that has played out elsewhere."

For all but one of the last 39 years, Caribana has found its place as Toronto's prime midsummer event, attracting millions of tourist dollars.

But this year [2006], the city decided against funding the financially troubled festival, instead throwing its support behind the Toronto Mas Band Association's bid to mount a rival event.

For its part, the band association says it already has the city's backing, as well as the necessary permits, and a registered name for the event — Toronto Caribbean Carnival.

If the name sounds familiar, it's because the mas band association already held the festival in 2002, when Caribana was struggling with bankruptcy.

"We have the bands. We have the permits. We're getting the funding. What else do you need?" says mas band president Frankie Ramsaroop, citing Aug. 5 as the official launch date.

Indeed, Ramsaroop says nothing will change but the name.

"The King and Queen is on, the children's carnival is on. It's the same thing. It's just a different name," he says. "Canadian people changed the dollar and called it the loonie. It's the same dollar."

Still, the fresh name will likely call for a fresh round of marketing.

"They've got to start from scratch," Dunne says. "They've got a new brand name. They've got to build awareness within their target audience of what their new name is and what it means."

But holding an upstart festival in Caribana's traditional spot on the calendar may save organizers from having to exercise so much of that marketing muscle.

"They would have to target the people who would otherwise have come to Caribana and then say: `Hey, there's something else going on in Toronto at that time,'" Dunne says.

The sad thing is that Caribana has always generated huge revenue FOR the city, but each and every year the CCC were in the red and it was almost always due to infighting and mismanagement of funds. What gov't or private sponsor is going to give money to something that is poorly operated?

Smart business people say well if this event generates hundred of millions to the city even though its being managed by people who can barely manage a personal cheque book, what would happen if more responsible people took over???

The Bandleaders saw an opportunity due to the incompetence of the committee to put in a bid which BOTH the city AND the province was more than willing to fund and support one they could be sure that at the endo of it no one would be crying broke which was what happened EVERY SINGLE YEAR when the CCC was running.

Maybe the bandleaders in NY should make some calls to Toronto...

:

Hawks · 07-12-2007, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by Bago20

Damn, i know the scenes on that, like whats in it for me yuh know, boi i ent know what else to say nah Hawks, but if there is any thing i can do to contribute i will be more than welcome to participate.

Bless.

Appreciate the kind words. As we have been telling everyone, if you are playing mas with a band that is supporting the pillaging of our community by participating under these conditions...boycott them. Tell a mas-friend too!
We also appreciate the continued support at our fund raising events..28th Annual Labor Day Boat Ride coming up..check out pass ones Hawks International

This Rolling Stone gathering nuff mas!

Bago20 · 07-12-2007, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by Hawks

Appreciate the kind words. As we have been telling everyone, if you are playing mas with a band that is supporting the pillaging of our community by participating under these conditions...boycott them. Tell a mas-friend too!
We also appreciate the continued support at our fund raising events..28th Annual Labor Day Boat Ride coming up..check out pass ones Hawks International

This Rolling Stone gathering nuff mas!

We go links...

Hawks · 07-12-2007, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Rinababy

The sad thing is that Caribana has always generated huge revenue FOR the city, but each and every year the CCC were in the red and it was almost always due to infighting and mismanagement of funds. What gov't or private sponsor is going to give money to something that is poorly operated?

Smart business people say well if this event generates hundred of millions to the city even though its being managed by people who can barely manage a personal cheque book, what would happen if more responsible people took over???

The Bandleaders saw an opportunity due to the incompetence of the committee to put in a bid which BOTH the city AND the province was more than willing to fund and support one they could be sure that at the endo of it no one would be crying broke which was what happened EVERY SINGLE YEAR when the CCC was running.

Maybe the bandleaders in NY should make some calls to Toronto...

:

Already in the works!

socapineman · 07-12-2007, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by Hawks

Ah..Finally the $$$$ Question!! Thank you!! I was waiting. The most affective way at this point in time is true action. Phone calls will not do it anymore. We must attack from the source. Get your friends and other masqueraders to ask their band of choice (Bandleader-every band has one) the following:

1. How is the city supporting them and promoting what we do?
2. How is WIDICA supporting them and fostering an environment conducive to the carnival? (ie Sponsorship $$)
3. Why do they allow the police to treat them like cattle and all the abuse (verbal and sometimes physical).
4. I know what the answer will be, it's about the culture, NO it is about respect and getting our share!

Masqueraders will have to Boycott the bands that continue to support this dying carnival if the consumer does not support, the shop it will close or changes their merchandise to suite. Get me? BOYCOTTTTT if they cannot answer those questions with an explanation that leads to a beneficial outcome for the producers (BANDS) this is the only way.

Thanks. Change comes from the root, we built it, time to crumble it and rebuild it again.

Cannot dispute the facts!

Dear Hawks Management :

I fully disagree with your approach to this matter...yes, I am 100% behind you and agree with you on what you have outline, but a Boycott in my opinion is not the way to approach this !

If I may... all great organizations like Hawks Int'l start planning right after labor day for the following year right?

Theme , mas, events, etc. ! Therefore, why wait until the 11th hour to address this now ?

There is no shortage of Hawks supporters like myself and numerous others who walk the walk and talk the talk.. who could have backed you all the way to City Hall.

I have spoken to Ralph and Lisa...I am sure you know who they are... to great length about these same issues you are addressing !

Clearly, Hawks In'tl is in a position to make moves and demand respect from our elected officials at City Hall.

When you re-opened you Resource Center a few years ago....clearly, there were no shortage of Numerous Elected Officials on Hand, you remember that photo opp ? ....you might even still have the pics up........so where are they now ?

Why didn't Hawks Management Address these issues with Marty Markowitz, Una, Yvette Clark, etc ?....

Why didn't Hawks Mang. addr these issues with your meetings with WIADCA ?

Hawks Int'l is a mainstay in Flatbush....why weren't these issues address during the monthly community Board meetings where you have representation from the police precinct, city council, etc. ?

Regarding the dis-respect these offices have for our ppl, culture , community , etc.

I notice no where on here you are asking ppl to call for the president of The West Indian / American Day Carnival Association, Ms Yolanda Lezama-Clark to step down...why not ?

Clearly, WIADCA is broken, so how could you ask your supporters to support you....when you have failed also to addr the Biggest problem ?

Note post 18 in the link below by a fellow Hawks' member....back in 2003 on Imix here...501 C 3, Not For Profit right.....ok then, When will WIADCA open up their Books to the public.....?

Exploitation of Parkway!?

I would suggest that Hawks Management address these issues first before you ask supporters, who are clueless to the facts to boycott the Parade.

Socapineman.

Ras_Apache · 07-12-2007, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by socapineman

Dear Hawks Management :

I fully disagree with your approach to this matter...yes, I am 100% behind you and agree with you on what you have outline, but a Boycott in my opinion is not the way to approach this !

If I may... all great organization like Hawks Int'l start planning right after labor day for the following year right theme , mas, events, etc. ! Therefore, why wait until the 11th hour to address this now ?

There is no shortage of Hawks supporters like myself and numerous others who walk the walk and talk the talk.. who could have backed you all the way to City Hall.

I have spoken to Ralph and Lisa...I am sure you know who they are... to great length about these same issues you are addressing !

Clearly, Hawks In'tl is in a position to make moves and demand respect from our elected officials at City Hall.

When you re-opened you Resource Center a few years ago....clearly, there were no shortage of Numerous Elected Officials on Hand, you remember that photo opp ? ....you might even still have the pics up........so where are they now ?

Why didn't Hawks Management Address these issues with Marty Markowitz, Una, Yvette Clark, etc ?....

Why didn't Hawk Mang. addr these issues with your meetings with WIADCA ?

Hawks Int'l is a mainstay in Flatbush....why weren't these issues address during the monthly community Board meetings where you have representation from the police precinct, city council, etc. ?

Regarding the dis-respect these offices have for our ppl, culture , community , etc.

I notice no where on here you are asking ppl to call for the president of West Indian / American Day Carnival Association, Ms Yolanda Lezama-Clark to step down...why not ?

Clearly, WIADCA is broken, so how could you ask your supporters to support you....when you have failed also to addr the Biggest problem ?

Note post 18 in the link below....back in 2003 on Imix here...501 C 3, Not For Profit right.....ok then, When will WIADCA open up their Books to the public.....?

Exploitation of Parkway!?

I would suggest that Hawks Management address these issues first before you ask supporters, who are clueless to the facts to boycott the Parade.

Socapineman.

damn, good points

Bago20 · 07-13-2007, 12:39 AM

You know what, i think i may take an offer to head up to Toronto for Carnival because to be very honest, the New York Carnival is a total JOKE. Last year was the friggin worst when i hardly seen any kind of Trinbago representation on the Parkway. Bands taking all up to an hour to come down the street, on top of that, the amount of spacing between bands are ridiculous, is like i standing waiting to see what? a NYPD helicopter buzz over meh head all the time chuepss and i ask my self i came out ah my bed for this. The police is another issue, where they harass people for no reason and yes i have seen this happen with my own 2 eyes. Its like year after year the number of bands decrease, and pretty soon there would be so few of bands that people would not even bother come to NY carnival anymore. For what? to get beat up by cops and to stand up watching people walking up and down on an empty parkway. Sigh* why bother, You know i have always been loyal to NY Carnival but this year there is a possibility for change in my schedule.

I say the parkway is truly not big enough and i too feel with others, that this event should be hosted somewhere else other than the parkway. There is hardly any room to walk and i am talking about the sidewalks and onces your able to walk freely, you find out you have been pick pocketed, not to say it happened to me but the potential is there. You know people having to deal with the ignorant idiots of certain areas with there homo thug behavior from firing shots in the air or at some one in a crowd, to be harassed by police and disrespected, to having to stand in wait for 20 mins plus to see another band pass and its even more irritating when that one band looks like some 24 hour put together your own carnival band kit set, to being congested in crowds of people that don't want to even shift so you can pass to having to walk so far JUST to get on the other side of the street, to seeing a band that has a dozen people jumping and waving, its like WTF is that. having our ending time decrease from 8 or 9m cant remember the exact time down to 6 pm or 5. to me it over since 3. And why must there be a limit on the number of bands? if there is already a time limit on when the event suppose to end....

All this shows not only lack of leadership but lack of ORGANIZATION AND COORDINATION. And sad to say, My head is looking towards another direction other than towards the NY direction. Its not worth the headache, money, nor the time. Like some people want to say why HAWKS n this and that, and some may feel HAWKS calling for a boycott because they are not in it this year and other bands are, its not a jealousy bad mind situation, NOTHING what so ever for what has been stated is true, and as a participant of the NY CARNIVAL i too is in agreement that the ORGANIZATION AND COORDINATION of an event that is suppose to be indeed the biggest in the Country much less the city has serious problems on the way how this thing is conducted, you figure over so many years of this same event people would be more wise and more experienced but the evidences shows for its self that they have not grown up. Its sad and its pathetic.

Bago20 · 07-13-2007, 01:08 AM

And another, why is the police coordinating this event? Because there is no REAL leadership coming from the governing body, more of puppets than leaders. I could careless because look what NY CARNIVAL has become. I starting to see more Yankee than Caribbean. Certain powers are NOT EFFECTIVE thus there must be a change. To sum it up, NY CARNIVAL is like a car , the driver sees the stop sign ahead and he knows he has breaks but yet he keeps his foot on the gas, what you think go soon happen?

Hawks · 07-13-2007, 11:22 AM

SEE MY RESPONSES IN LINE IN RED

FIRST OFF, LET ME STATE VERY OBSERVATIONAL, BUT NOT QUITE THE MARK. THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME TO OFFER INPUT. NOW FOR MY RESPONSES:

Dear Hawks Management :

I fully disagree with your approach to this matter...

My approach is solely based on experience, hence a lot of the references you state appeared to be based on observations. good ones but again, I speak from a position of experience on the issue, living the issue and dealing with the issue in some of the vary ways you have mentioned. All of the suggestions you have were already covered in previous years. As far back as 2001.

If I may... all great organizations like Hawks Int'l start planning right after labor day for the following year right?

YES

Theme , mas, events, etc. ! Therefore, why wait until the 11th hour to address this now ?

This was strategically done this way to create an impact. are the presidential candidates being specific about how they will run the country now in all the debates thus far? The time to show our full hand will come. this is like a chess match, a game and must be played to win. Our efforts are trying to be thwarted by some of the individuals you mention at this very moment. No one ever wants the boat to be rocked. Btw, did you see the Michael Moore interview on cnn the other night. watch it you will understand what i mean. Welcome to MichaelMoore.com (CNN GETS BLITZ BY Micheal Mre)
There is no shortage of Hawks supporters like myself and numerous others who walk the walk and talk the talk.. who could have backed you all the way to City Hall.

This would be better served with all the bands in unity!

Clearly, Hawks In'tl is in a position to make moves and demand respect from our elected officials at City Hall. Absolutly and have.

When you re-opened you Resource Center a few years ago....clearly, there were no shortage of Numerous Elected Officials on Hand, you remember that photo opp ? ....you might even still have the pics up........so where are they now ?

Our political leaders continue to support us. They have tried to mitigate this issue for years. However the one message they continue to relay to both Hawks and WIDICA is get on the same page. They do not want to get in the middle of what appears to be a squabble between family. Put yourself in the position of Marty. If he supports the bands which are not on the same page as a unified entity, he would appear to be a polarizing figure. Something that spells death to any elected offical. Right now, all the elected officals are staying the status quo, because nothing is forcing their hand. This is what we intend to do. If you ask some of the other major bands if they have the same compliants, they will yes, and then provide more valid pain points. Ask them why not boycott ever like hawks to affect change if what you are doing does not work and continue to fall on deaf ears. Ask them why do they continue to subject themself and Masquraders to treament by the police. To answer your question, they (The Politicians) are there on the sideline waiting to see who will the stronger of the two. They dont know! If the bands got together, check out the post illustrating what happened in TDOT when the bands got together. That equals a voting block, this is what the politicians are interested in. This is why we get the limited help we get.

Why didn't Hawks Management Address these issues with Marty Markowitz, Una, Yvette Clark, etc ?....

See previous post, been there done that.

Why didn't Hawks Mang. addr these issues with your meetings with WIADCA ?

Now I know you are not in the inner circle asking this question. Do you know the make up of this organization? If you did you will understand why. These meetings are dis-organized, pointless, you come out more confused than when you go in, lots of ignorant people yelling and screaming, it is simply not a conducive environment to get any meaningful agenda passed.
Hawks Int'l is a mainstay in Flatbush....why weren't these issues address during the monthly community Board meetings where you have representation from the police precinct, city council, etc. ?

Not the correct forum, this agenda needs a dedicated task force, we are talking about the CITY & STATE, not a community in a few zip codes.

Regarding the dis-respect these offices have for our ppl, culture , community , etc.

I notice no where on here you are asking ppl to call for the president of The West Indian / American Day Carnival Association, Ms Yolanda Lezama-Clark to step down...why not ?

Yolanda is not the problem, her supporting cast is. Once again, talking from experience and being in the "inner circle." Yolanda has progressive ideas, if you cannot get your agenda passed in your own organization and get marginalized, then you have issues. Also, do not be so quick to asses blame. Follow the $$ train and see who benefits the most from what we do. You will then clearly see that WIADCA is in the food chain but not at the end. In my opinion the ones to blame are the entities that are benefiting the most and the entities that are not benefiting it but supporting it, City<-->Bands. WIADCA is in the middle. Study it!

Clearly, WIADCA is broken, so how could you ask your supporters to support you....when you have failed also to addr the Biggest problem ?

A movement is needed. This is not about Hawks, this is about the community and being respected as a people.

Note post 18 in the link below by a fellow Hawks' member....back in 2003 on Imix here...501 C 3, Not For Profit right.....ok then, When will WIADCA open up their Books to the public.....?

[COLOR="red"]Thanks for finding that..very familiar as I wrote it :>) The question you really want to ask, is why are their books not scrutinized by the very politicians that have the power to do it. In fact Mayor Bloomberg gave them over 200K in donations in 2006. Are you getting it now??COLOR]
Exploitation of Parkway!?

I would suggest that Hawks Management address these issues first before you ask supporters, who are clueless to the facts to boycott the Parade.

Disagree, we are at the point where the supporters need to get involved if they want to see the carnival live on. This is a group effort, not a Hawks effort. We cannot solve world hunger by ourselves. Ever heard of Together we aspire together we achieve. We are asking all carnival supporters to look at it objectively and do what the right thing is to do to affect change.

1. Calling your politicians will not work, we are not organized and speaking with one voice. It will fall on deaf ears.
2. Calling WIDCA will not work, past behavior has illustrated this to us.
3. Talking action by not supporting it will force everyone to change their ways. This will be a precedent here in NY and has never been done before. We are the first to take this bold step again. This time it is for keeps. Lets see if the other bands follow. Trust me, if this works we will not have to worry about this again. This would even turn WIDICA into a functioning body advocating for us or oust them.

Study history my friend of various movements and you will begin to resonate with what I am saying. Again thank you for the meaningful comments. More to come I hope!!
[/

Socapineman.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Socapineman.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Pebbles362436 · 07-13-2007, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by socapineman

Dear Hawks Management :

I fully disagree with your approach to this matter...yes, I am 100% behind you and agree with you on what you have outline, but a Boycott in my opinion is not the way to approach this !

If I may... all great organizations like Hawks Int'l start planning right after labor day for the following year right?

Theme , mas, events, etc. ! Therefore, why wait until the 11th hour to address this now ?

There is no shortage of Hawks supporters like myself and numerous others who walk the walk and talk the talk.. who could have backed you all the way to City Hall.

I have spoken to Ralph and Lisa...I am sure you know who they are... to great length about these same issues you are addressing !

Clearly, Hawks In'tl is in a position to make moves and demand respect from our elected officials at City Hall.

When you re-opened you Resource Center a few years ago....clearly, there were no shortage of Numerous Elected Officials on Hand, you remember that photo opp ? ....you might even still have the pics up........so where are they now ?

Why didn't Hawks Management Address these issues with Marty Markowitz, Una, Yvette Clark, etc ?....

Why didn't Hawks Mang. addr these issues with your meetings with WIADCA ?

Hawks Int'l is a mainstay in Flatbush....why weren't these issues address during the monthly community Board meetings where you have representation from the police precinct, city council, etc. ?

Regarding the dis-respect these offices have for our ppl, culture , community , etc.

I notice no where on here you are asking ppl to call for the president of The West Indian / American Day Carnival Association, Ms Yolanda Lezama-Clark to step down...why not ?

Clearly, WIADCA is broken, so how could you ask your supporters to support you....when you have failed also to addr the Biggest problem ?

Note post 18 in the link below by a fellow Hawks' member....back in 2003 on Imix here...501 C 3, Not For Profit right.....ok then, When will WIADCA open up their Books to the public.....?

Exploitation of Parkway!?

I would suggest that Hawks Management address these issues first before you ask supporters, who are clueless to the facts to boycott the Parade.

Socapineman.

Thank you I smell law suit.

Dark & Lovely · 07-13-2007, 11:42 AM

Hawks... I respect your decision and I am speaking from a Steelband prospective. People who are not in the mas and steelband circle dont understand what we have to go thru to come out Panorama night or what the mas bands have to do to come out Labor Day. Thousands and Thousands of dollars are spent and in return we get back next to nothing! Yeah we do it for our culture but its hard when u see people making millions and all your band get is a little tiny piece of that.

Do u remember the year when most steelbands Boycotted the museum and went to Thomas Jefferson field? That was a hell of a year !!! It showed Wiadca that with togetherness the steelband people can gain more money and respect!!! The next year the prize money and appearance fee was raised! I still dont think its enough but that was a step in the right direction!!

I hope everthing works out for the best !

renryu · 07-13-2007, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Hawks

HAWKS INTERNATIONAL PULLS OUT OF 2007 NEW YORK LABOR DAY CARNIVAL CELEBRATION

July 11,2007

For Immediate Release
Source: Hawks International Inc.
Contact: Hawks International Inc.
info@hawksintl.com

Video: available at:
1) http://www.hawksintl.com/hawkslaborday2006.wmv

Photographs available at:
2) Jewels of The Caribbean Hawks International Labor Day 2005

To our many friends & supporters who have participated and enjoyed our Labor-Day Carnival presentation over the past 30 + years, and to the general public as a whole, we wish to thank you for your support during this period. Unfortunately we have come to the decision that we can no longer participate in the West Indian Day Carnival presentation because of the increasing cost, lack of funding, inability to host fund raising events, the inconvenient and excessive restrictions imposed by the NYPD and the inability of WIADCA (West Indian American Day Carnival Association) to properly represent the producers of this significant event, perhaps the largest of it’s kind in the USA.

This festival generates almost $300 million for the City of New York while the producers are forced to pay their own way even a fee to WIADCA to participate in the Carnival Celebration on the Parkway. While we are certain that the absence of Hawks International alone will not be felt, we have decided that this is an exercise in futility which must now come to an end. We are cognizant of our commitment to sustain the rich culture of the Caribbean and the necessity to pass the tradition on to generations of the future. Should conditions change for the better to foster an infrastructure in which we the producers can thrive we stand poise to continue our contribution. We look forward to the continued support at other Hawks International fund raising activities.

Our Motto: Dare to Forge the Future.

For further information visit Hawks International call 732.406.5231or email info@hawksintl.com

ENDS
###

There is strength in unity, one caribbean; we should all pull out so that we can all prosper from our culture instead of the city.

trinifrombx · 07-13-2007, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Hawks

They are preparing a press release as I type this. They just called to pledge their support. The others will find themselves by themselves (You know who you are). Its like Chicago Bulls without the Knicks, Bonnie without Clyde, Maracas with out a Bake n Shark... How long will it take...only time will tell!

Originally Posted by Hawks

Exactly what I am saying..leadership counts. There is no leadership in our community that represents us! This is why Hawks has crossed the line, lets see how many others follows. "The revolution will not be televised"

Originally Posted by Hawks

Ah..Finally the $$$$ Question!! Thank you!! I was waiting. The most affective way at this point in time is true action. Phone calls will not do it anymore. We must attack from the source. Get your friends and other masqueraders to ask their band of choice (Bandleader-every band has one) the following:

1. How is the city supporting them and promoting what we do?
2. How is WIDICA supporting them and fostering an environment conducive to the carnival? (ie Sponsorship $$)
3. Why do they allow the police to treat them like cattle and all the abuse (verbal and sometimes physical).
4. I know what the answer will be, it's about the culture, NO it is about respect and getting our share!

Masqueraders will have to Boycott the bands that continue to support this dying carnival if the consumer does not support, the shop it will close or changes their merchandise to suite. Get me? BOYCOTTTTT if they cannot answer those questions with an explanation that leads to a beneficial outcome for the producers (BANDS) this is the only way.

Thanks. Change comes from the root, we built it, time to crumble it and rebuild it again.

Cannot dispute the facts!

Thanks for the reply.

None of what you stated to me make any sense !
!

So who is in charge of putting on the Labor day Parade ?

That is who we should Boycott !

trinifrombx · 07-13-2007, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by socapineman

Dear Hawks Management :

I fully disagree with your approach to this matter...yes, I am 100% behind you and agree with you on what you have outline, but a Boycott in my opinion is not the way to approach this !

If I may... all great organizations like Hawks Int'l start planning right after labor day for the following year right?

Theme , mas, events, etc. ! Therefore, why wait until the 11th hour to address this now ?

There is no shortage of Hawks supporters like myself and numerous others who walk the walk and talk the talk.. who could have backed you all the way to City Hall.

I have spoken to Ralph and Lisa...I am sure you know who they are... to great length about these same issues you are addressing !

Clearly, Hawks In'tl is in a position to make moves and demand respect from our elected officials at City Hall.

When you re-opened you Resource Center a few years ago....clearly, there were no shortage of Numerous Elected Officials on Hand, you remember that photo opp ? ....you might even still have the pics up........so where are they now ?

Why didn't Hawks Management Address these issues with Marty Markowitz, Una, Yvette Clark, etc ?....

Why didn't Hawks Mang. addr these issues with your meetings with WIADCA ?

Hawks Int'l is a mainstay in Flatbush....why weren't these issues address during the monthly community Board meetings where you have representation from the police precinct, city council, etc. ?

Regarding the dis-respect these offices have for our ppl, culture , community , etc.

I notice no where on here you are asking ppl to call for the president of The West Indian / American Day Carnival Association, Ms Yolanda Lezama-Clark to step down...why not ?

Clearly, WIADCA is broken, so how could you ask your supporters to support you....when you have failed also to addr the Biggest problem ?

Note post 18 in the link below by a fellow Hawks' member....back in 2003 on Imix here...501 C 3, Not For Profit right.....ok then, When will WIADCA open up their Books to the public.....?

Exploitation of Parkway!?

I would suggest that Hawks Management address these issues first before you ask supporters, who are clueless to the facts to boycott the Parade.

Socapineman.

Nuff Respect Pineman, excellent points.

trinifrombx · 07-13-2007, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by renryu

There is strength in unity, one caribbean; we should all pull out so that we can all prosper from our culture instead of the city.

Another person watching too much cable, so share with us how we go about it ?

Common sense would tell you that we have to work with the City , what parks we own ? what streets we own ? what Hotels we own ?

07-13-2007, 12:39 AM	#112 (permalink)
Bago20 I'm on the Rock Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Brooklyn,NY Posts: 5,832 Credits: 5,939	This is the problem..... You know what, i think i may take an offer to head up to Toronto for Carnival because to be very honest, the New York Carnival is a total JOKE. Last year was the friggin worst when i hardly seen any kind of Trinbago representation on the Parkway. Bands taking all up to an hour to come down the street, on top of that, the amount of spacing between bands are ridiculous, is like i standing waiting to see what? a NYPD helicopter buzz over meh head all the time chuepss and i ask my self i came out ah my bed for this. The police is another issue, where they harass people for no reason and yes i have seen this happen with my own 2 eyes. Its like year after year the number of bands decrease, and pretty soon there would be so few of bands that people would not even bother come to NY carnival anymore. For what? to get beat up by cops and to stand up watching people walking up and down on an empty parkway. Sigh* why bother, You know i have always been loyal to NY Carnival but this year there is a possibility for change in my schedule. I say the parkway is truly not big enough and i too feel with others, that this event should be hosted somewhere else other than the parkway. There is hardly any room to walk and i am talking about the sidewalks and onces your able to walk freely, you find out you have been pick pocketed, not to say it happened to me but the potential is there. You know people having to deal with the ignorant idiots of certain areas with there homo thug behavior from firing shots in the air or at some one in a crowd, to be harassed by police and disrespected, to having to stand in wait for 20 mins plus to see another band pass and its even more irritating when that one band looks like some 24 hour put together your own carnival band kit set, to being congested in crowds of people that don't want to even shift so you can pass to having to walk so far JUST to get on the other side of the street, to seeing a band that has a dozen people jumping and waving, its like WTF is that. having our ending time decrease from 8 or 9m cant remember the exact time down to 6 pm or 5. to me it over since 3. And why must there be a limit on the number of bands? if there is already a time limit on when the event suppose to end.... All this shows not only lack of leadership but lack of ORGANIZATION AND COORDINATION. And sad to say, My head is looking towards another direction other than towards the NY direction. Its not worth the headache, money, nor the time. Like some people want to say why HAWKS n this and that, and some may feel HAWKS calling for a boycott because they are not in it this year and other bands are, its not a jealousy bad mind situation, NOTHING what so ever for what has been stated is true, and as a participant of the NY CARNIVAL i too is in agreement that the ORGANIZATION AND COORDINATION of an event that is suppose to be indeed the biggest in the Country much less the city has serious problems on the way how this thing is conducted, you figure over so many years of this same event people would be more wise and more experienced but the evidences shows for its self that they have not grown up. Its sad and its pathetic. __________________ STAG, goat and rice. I'm good. http://www.islandmix.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=3345 http://www.islandmix.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=500&page=2&ppuser=25586

07-13-2007, 01:08 AM	#113 (permalink)
Bago20 I'm on the Rock Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Brooklyn,NY Posts: 5,832 Credits: 5,939	And another, why is the police coordinating this event? Because there is no REAL leadership coming from the governing body, more of puppets than leaders. I could careless because look what NY CARNIVAL has become. I starting to see more Yankee than Caribbean. Certain powers are NOT EFFECTIVE thus there must be a change. To sum it up, NY CARNIVAL is like a car , the driver sees the stop sign ahead and he knows he has breaks but yet he keeps his foot on the gas, what you think go soon happen? __________________ STAG, goat and rice. I'm good. http://www.islandmix.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=3345 http://www.islandmix.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=500&page=2&ppuser=25586

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread:

IslandMix - Soca, Reggae, Zouk and Caribbean Entertainment

Latest 2009/2010 Releases

Latest Photos

Follow Us On...

Advertisement

07-13-2007, 11:22 AM	#114 (permalink)
Hawks Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Location: International Posts: 89 Credits: 98	SEE MY RESPONSES IN LINE IN RED FIRST OFF, LET ME STATE VERY OBSERVATIONAL, BUT NOT QUITE THE MARK. THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME TO OFFER INPUT. NOW FOR MY RESPONSES: Dear Hawks Management : I fully disagree with your approach to this matter... My approach is solely based on experience, hence a lot of the references you state appeared to be based on observations. good ones but again, I speak from a position of experience on the issue, living the issue and dealing with the issue in some of the vary ways you have mentioned. All of the suggestions you have were already covered in previous years. As far back as 2001. If I may... all great organizations like Hawks Int'l start planning right after labor day for the following year right? YES Theme , mas, events, etc. ! Therefore, why wait until the 11th hour to address this now ? This was strategically done this way to create an impact. are the presidential candidates being specific about how they will run the country now in all the debates thus far? The time to show our full hand will come. this is like a chess match, a game and must be played to win. Our efforts are trying to be thwarted by some of the individuals you mention at this very moment. No one ever wants the boat to be rocked. Btw, did you see the Michael Moore interview on cnn the other night. watch it you will understand what i mean. Welcome to MichaelMoore.com (CNN GETS BLITZ BY Micheal Mre) There is no shortage of Hawks supporters like myself and numerous others who walk the walk and talk the talk.. who could have backed you all the way to City Hall. This would be better served with all the bands in unity! Clearly, Hawks In'tl is in a position to make moves and demand respect from our elected officials at City Hall. Absolutly and have. When you re-opened you Resource Center a few years ago....clearly, there were no shortage of Numerous Elected Officials on Hand, you remember that photo opp ? ....you might even still have the pics up........so where are they now ? Our political leaders continue to support us. They have tried to mitigate this issue for years. However the one message they continue to relay to both Hawks and WIDICA is get on the same page. They do not want to get in the middle of what appears to be a squabble between family. Put yourself in the position of Marty. If he supports the bands which are not on the same page as a unified entity, he would appear to be a polarizing figure. Something that spells death to any elected offical. Right now, all the elected officals are staying the status quo, because nothing is forcing their hand. This is what we intend to do. If you ask some of the other major bands if they have the same compliants, they will yes, and then provide more valid pain points. Ask them why not boycott ever like hawks to affect change if what you are doing does not work and continue to fall on deaf ears. Ask them why do they continue to subject themself and Masquraders to treament by the police. To answer your question, they (The Politicians) are there on the sideline waiting to see who will the stronger of the two. They dont know! If the bands got together, check out the post illustrating what happened in TDOT when the bands got together. That equals a voting block, this is what the politicians are interested in. This is why we get the limited help we get. Why didn't Hawks Management Address these issues with Marty Markowitz, Una, Yvette Clark, etc ?.... See previous post, been there done that. Why didn't Hawks Mang. addr these issues with your meetings with WIADCA ? Now I know you are not in the inner circle asking this question. Do you know the make up of this organization? If you did you will understand why. These meetings are dis-organized, pointless, you come out more confused than when you go in, lots of ignorant people yelling and screaming, it is simply not a conducive environment to get any meaningful agenda passed. Hawks Int'l is a mainstay in Flatbush....why weren't these issues address during the monthly community Board meetings where you have representation from the police precinct, city council, etc. ? Not the correct forum, this agenda needs a dedicated task force, we are talking about the CITY & STATE, not a community in a few zip codes. Regarding the dis-respect these offices have for our ppl, culture , community , etc. I notice no where on here you are asking ppl to call for the president of The West Indian / American Day Carnival Association, Ms Yolanda Lezama-Clark to step down...why not ? Yolanda is not the problem, her supporting cast is. Once again, talking from experience and being in the "inner circle." Yolanda has progressive ideas, if you cannot get your agenda passed in your own organization and get marginalized, then you have issues. Also, do not be so quick to asses blame. Follow the $$ train and see who benefits the most from what we do. You will then clearly see that WIADCA is in the food chain but not at the end. In my opinion the ones to blame are the entities that are benefiting the most and the entities that are not benefiting it but supporting it, City<-->Bands. WIADCA is in the middle. Study it! Clearly, WIADCA is broken, so how could you ask your supporters to support you....when you have failed also to addr the Biggest problem ? A movement is needed. This is not about Hawks, this is about the community and being respected as a people. Note post 18 in the link below by a fellow Hawks' member....back in 2003 on Imix here...501 C 3, Not For Profit right.....ok then, When will WIADCA open up their Books to the public.....? [COLOR="red"]Thanks for finding that..very familiar as I wrote it :>) The question you really want to ask, is why are their books not scrutinized by the very politicians that have the power to do it. In fact Mayor Bloomberg gave them over 200K in donations in 2006. Are you getting it now??COLOR] Exploitation of Parkway!? I would suggest that Hawks Management address these issues first before you ask supporters, who are clueless to the facts to boycott the Parade. Disagree, we are at the point where the supporters need to get involved if they want to see the carnival live on. This is a group effort, not a Hawks effort. We cannot solve world hunger by ourselves. Ever heard of Together we aspire together we achieve. We are asking all carnival supporters to look at it objectively and do what the right thing is to do to affect change. 1. Calling your politicians will not work, we are not organized and speaking with one voice. It will fall on deaf ears. 2. Calling WIDCA will not work, past behavior has illustrated this to us. 3. Talking action by not supporting it will force everyone to change their ways. This will be a precedent here in NY and has never been done before. We are the first to take this bold step again. This time it is for keeps. Lets see if the other bands follow. Trust me, if this works we will not have to worry about this again. This would even turn WIDICA into a functioning body advocating for us or oust them. Study history my friend of various movements and you will begin to resonate with what I am saying. Again thank you for the meaningful comments. More to come I hope!! [/ Socapineman.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] Socapineman.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

07-13-2007, 11:42 AM	#116 (permalink)
Dark & Lovely $ CASH MONEY PROMOTIONS$ Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: brooklyn usa Posts: 10,220 Credits: 9,227	Hawks... I respect your decision and I am speaking from a Steelband prospective. People who are not in the mas and steelband circle dont understand what we have to go thru to come out Panorama night or what the mas bands have to do to come out Labor Day. Thousands and Thousands of dollars are spent and in return we get back next to nothing! Yeah we do it for our culture but its hard when u see people making millions and all your band get is a little tiny piece of that. Do u remember the year when most steelbands Boycotted the museum and went to Thomas Jefferson field? That was a hell of a year !!! It showed Wiadca that with togetherness the steelband people can gain more money and respect!!! The next year the prize money and appearance fee was raised! I still dont think its enough but that was a step in the right direction!! I hope everthing works out for the best !