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Thread: based on the hurricanes

  1. #1
    Registered User sanfranjouvay's Avatar sanfranjouvay is offline
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    based on the hurricanes

    Are you thinking about climate change and the possibility that your contributions are leading to increased surface temperatures?

    I'm trying to formulate a research approach to this kind of thing since i am a researcher now, but I have always been intrigued with the role public media plays and can play in informing the public and forcing change (e.g. the whole idea behind phiva.net which is still to receive some attention and if one of you wants to take it on please im me).

    How do we get science and engineering into the minds of the general public so people can make informed decisions on how to live. If the general public really had an understanding of what science could do or is doing to them, maybe they'd be more interested in how research dollars are spent by the government and be a bit more involved in things.

    Anyway, this whole hurricane thing and ignorance of poor people's issues has me looking around my own neighborhood in Tampa.

    Someone emailed me asking if jouvay.com was playing mas for miami and if we were donating some of the proceeds to Katrina. That they felt guilty for playing kind of. My response was long, but I think we have an opportunity right now whilst these "natural disasters" are fresh in our minds to question our own habits and ask how do we contribute. Without a public awareness and demand for things like fuel efficient vehicles or better planned public transport systems research funding will never go into it.

    SUV lovers rehab clinic needed.

  2. #2
    Whose YO DADDY..^ DADDY MAGYVER is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanfranjouvay
    Are you thinking about climate change and the possibility that your contributions are leading to increased surface temperatures?

    I'm trying to formulate a research approach to this kind of thing since i am a researcher now, but I have always been intrigued with the role public media plays and can play in informing the public and forcing change (e.g. the whole idea behind phiva.net which is still to receive some attention and if one of you wants to take it on please im me).

    How do we get science and engineering into the minds of the general public so people can make informed decisions on how to live. If the general public really had an understanding of what science could do or is doing to them, maybe they'd be more interested in how research dollars are spent by the government and be a bit more involved in things.

    Anyway, this whole hurricane thing and ignorance of poor people's issues has me looking around my own neighborhood in Tampa.

    Someone emailed me asking if jouvay.com was playing mas for miami and if we were donating some of the proceeds to Katrina. That they felt guilty for playing kind of. My response was long, but I think we have an opportunity right now whilst these "natural disasters" are fresh in our minds to question our own habits and ask how do we contribute. Without a public awareness and demand for things like fuel efficient vehicles or better planned public transport systems research funding will never go into it.

    SUV lovers rehab clinic needed.
    well yuh cant expect people to stray form what they r use to unless you force them to. take away or reduce the gas guzzlers and wa la... a little less polution. increase restrictions on aerosol and wala a little less pollution.

    increase efficiency standards in factories and plants.....etc etc.

    but with everything comes a price. prices end up skyrocketing or pollution just changes location. ie. electric car - instead of pollution from the car you have the pollution at the factory that makes the batteries for the electrical car.

    lots of factors involved, its been too much of a long day to get involved with all those things now though... maybe later
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    IMIX ATTORNEY GENERAL Trinibaje's Avatar Trinibaje is offline
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    http://www.hurricaneville.com/historic.html


    since people act like hurricanes are some recent phenomenon.

  4. #4
    Fowl cock run backyard A.savage's Avatar A.savage is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanfranjouvay
    Are you thinking about climate change and the possibility that your contributions are leading to increased surface temperatures?

    I'm trying to formulate a research approach to this kind of thing since i am a researcher now, but I have always been intrigued with the role public media plays and can play in informing the public and forcing change (e.g. the whole idea behind phiva.net which is still to receive some attention and if one of you wants to take it on please im me).

    How do we get science and engineering into the minds of the general public so people can make informed decisions on how to live. If the general public really had an understanding of what science could do or is doing to them, maybe they'd be more interested in how research dollars are spent by the government and be a bit more involved in things.

    Anyway, this whole hurricane thing and ignorance of poor people's issues has me looking around my own neighborhood in Tampa.

    Someone emailed me asking if jouvay.com was playing mas for miami and if we were donating some of the proceeds to Katrina. That they felt guilty for playing kind of. My response was long, but I think we have an opportunity right now whilst these "natural disasters" are fresh in our minds to question our own habits and ask how do we contribute. Without a public awareness and demand for things like fuel efficient vehicles or better planned public transport systems research funding will never go into it.

    SUV lovers rehab clinic needed.
    Not really. Its human nature. Right now every tom,################ and harry is talking bout donating and shyte. When before these disasters some of them wouldn't have spit pon de next man if he was burning. Sure now it cool to donate help out de poor ppl. Now wait a few months and ya see jokes start pop up, then ya see ppl start complain bout why them can help themselves or some shyte. Its not there fault its just how things are. The masses care little about what is done or being done so long as its done right cause most don't feel like they can do anything about it. (Example minorities voting *Look who prez and who most minorities vote for*) So it loses importance.

  5. #5
    Whose YO DADDY..^ DADDY MAGYVER is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinibaje
    http://www.hurricaneville.com/historic.html


    since people act like hurricanes are some recent phenomenon.

    no but the intensity of them are due to a warmer climate and something i think about the water being warmer
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  6. #6
    IMIX ATTORNEY GENERAL Trinibaje's Avatar Trinibaje is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by DADDY MAGYVER
    no but the intensity of them are due to a warmer climate and something i think about the water being warmer
    take an opportunity to read through all the hurricanes

    Great Hurricane of 1780--This storm was one of several that year, which was one of the worst hurricane seasons in the era prior to record taking. Winds were estimated to be Category Four strength at 135 mph. This storm, which affected the Southern Windward Islands including Barbados, St. Vincent, Grenada, Martinique, St. Eustatius, and near Puerto Rico and Grand Turk Island, is believed to have killed approximately 22,000 people. Of that total, between 4,000 and 5,000 people were killed on St. Eustatius. Martinique had an estimated 9,000 people killed including 1,000 in St. Pierre, which had all of its homes destroyed.


    Cape May Hurricane of 1821--The last major hurricane to make a direct landfall in the Garden State of New Jersey. This storm, which was a Category Four Hurricane, struck Cape May, New Jersey on September 3, 1821, and had hurricane force winds go as far west as Philadelphia while folks in New Jersey experienced wind gusts of up to 200 mph


    Galveston Hurricane of 1900--The deadliest natural disaster in United States History, this Category Four Hurricane moved through Cuba into the Gulf of Mexico before slamming ashore in Galveston, Texas on September 8, 1900 killing 6,000 people


    Major Hurricane of September, 1933--1933 was a very active year for tropical storms and hurricanes with 21 named storms, and 10 of them becoming hurricanes. In addition to the Great Chesapeake Hurricane of 1933, the Mid-Atlantic was hit by another hurricane almost exactly a month to the day later when a Category Three storm emerged from a disturbance in the Bahamas, and came up the coast to make landfall at Cape Lookout, North Carolina. The storm ended up causing about a fraction of the damage caused by the Chesapeake Bay storm. Only about 2,000 telephones were knocked out by the storm, and only two people died in Virginia.



    Sorry I don't buy the Hype.... Living in Miami 13 years now and although every year we doing the dodge... and we get our share of storms.. there has been only one major storm (Cat 3 and up) in those 13 years and that is Andrew.

    If you study the history of the storms.. we might be in a decade where there is a lot of activity, which happens about every 50 to 60 years... This season is active but its certainly not the most active season ever recorded.

  7. #7
    Weakness fuh Sweetness Yankee Doodle's Avatar Yankee Doodle is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanfranjouvay
    Are you thinking about climate change and the possibility that your contributions are leading to increased surface temperatures?

    I don't think it is "global warming". It is increased geothermic activity at plate boundaries due to individual plate movement. Plates move and shift daily and as a result expose molten magma (especially under the ocean) thus increasing the temperature of the oceans. That in combination with the sun growing (yes people the sun grows daily as well) is much or more of the cause of global warming than factories, suv's, etc.

    I'm trying to formulate a research approach to this kind of thing since i am a researcher now, but I have always been intrigued with the role public media plays and can play in informing the public and forcing change (e.g. the whole idea behind phiva.net which is still to receive some attention and if one of you wants to take it on please im me).

    The media is a tool of the government...therefore it is used to promote a political agenda. Bush doesn't care about global warming, therefore it will never get as much attention in the media as, let's say, terrorism.

    How do we get science and engineering into the minds of the general public so people can make informed decisions on how to live. If the general public really had an understanding of what science could do or is doing to them, maybe they'd be more interested in how research dollars are spent by the government and be a bit more involved in things.

    Well, being a scientist myself, one must have a genuine interest or curiosity to be able to comprehend such things. Unfortunately, most people lack that interest and are not curious until things happen. I don't even think most people cared about hurricanes until Katrina hit.

    Anyway, this whole hurricane thing and ignorance of poor people's issues has me looking around my own neighborhood in Tampa.

    Someone emailed me asking if jouvay.com was playing mas for miami and if we were donating some of the proceeds to Katrina. That they felt guilty for playing kind of. My response was long, but I think we have an opportunity right now whilst these "natural disasters" are fresh in our minds to question our own habits and ask how do we contribute. Without a public awareness and demand for things like fuel efficient vehicles or better planned public transport systems research funding will never go into it.

    That is rediculous...did they donate anything for Katrina. The nerve of some people. But I'll bet you October 9, they will be in the mas and could care less about Katrina or any other of the world's problems.
    My

  8. #8
    IMIX ATTORNEY GENERAL Trinibaje's Avatar Trinibaje is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Doodle
    My
    you keep that up you gonna be accused of being a republican

  9. #9
    Whose YO DADDY..^ DADDY MAGYVER is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinibaje
    take an opportunity to read through all the hurricanes

    Great Hurricane of 1780--This storm was one of several that year, which was one of the worst hurricane seasons in the era prior to record taking. Winds were estimated to be Category Four strength at 135 mph. This storm, which affected the Southern Windward Islands including Barbados, St. Vincent, Grenada, Martinique, St. Eustatius, and near Puerto Rico and Grand Turk Island, is believed to have killed approximately 22,000 people. Of that total, between 4,000 and 5,000 people were killed on St. Eustatius. Martinique had an estimated 9,000 people killed including 1,000 in St. Pierre, which had all of its homes destroyed.


    Cape May Hurricane of 1821--The last major hurricane to make a direct landfall in the Garden State of New Jersey. This storm, which was a Category Four Hurricane, struck Cape May, New Jersey on September 3, 1821, and had hurricane force winds go as far west as Philadelphia while folks in New Jersey experienced wind gusts of up to 200 mph


    Galveston Hurricane of 1900--The deadliest natural disaster in United States History, this Category Four Hurricane moved through Cuba into the Gulf of Mexico before slamming ashore in Galveston, Texas on September 8, 1900 killing 6,000 people


    Major Hurricane of September, 1933--1933 was a very active year for tropical storms and hurricanes with 21 named storms, and 10 of them becoming hurricanes. In addition to the Great Chesapeake Hurricane of 1933, the Mid-Atlantic was hit by another hurricane almost exactly a month to the day later when a Category Three storm emerged from a disturbance in the Bahamas, and came up the coast to make landfall at Cape Lookout, North Carolina. The storm ended up causing about a fraction of the damage caused by the Chesapeake Bay storm. Only about 2,000 telephones were knocked out by the storm, and only two people died in Virginia.



    Sorry I don't buy the Hype.... Living in Miami 13 years now and although every year we doing the dodge... and we get our share of storms.. there has been only one major storm (Cat 3 and up) in those 13 years and that is Andrew.

    If you study the history of the storms.. we might be in a decade where there is a lot of activity, which happens about every 50 to 60 years... This season is active but its certainly not the most active season ever recorded.
    thnx for the info bajetrini
    hopefully it is only going to be crazy like this during a period of a decade or so if thats what it is
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  10. #10
    Weakness fuh Sweetness Yankee Doodle's Avatar Yankee Doodle is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinibaje
    you keep that up you gonna be accused of being a republican

  11. #11
    Wempy WadadliEmpress's Avatar WadadliEmpress is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinibaje
    you keep that up you gonna be accused of being a republican

  12. #12
    Registered User keezii's Avatar keezii is offline
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    global warming may not be directly linked to stronger hurricanes...
    and..
    its obvious that stronger or similar category hurricanes existed b4 greenhouse gas emission was to the extent as it is right now...
    ....but..
    global warming will contribute to higher sea levels, increase rainfall and change in ocean currents..which will promote excessive flooding in low areas.

    so even if this administraion claims that global warming doesnt change the climate it still has its still promotes to its after effects.
    the solution to this to hurricane hoopla that the media is blowin outta portion is better flood/storm management.

    but watch...halliburton already won bid for the redevelopment contract....
    them repubs aint easy..makin a buck on the ppl mishaps lol

  13. #13
    Registered User sanfranjouvay's Avatar sanfranjouvay is offline
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    New Orleans: Drowning all illusions
    Mike Davis
    Le Monde Diplomatique

    The tempest that destroyed New Orleans was conjured out of tropical
    seas
    and an angry atmosphere 125 miles offshore of the Bahamas. Labelled
    initially as "Tropical Depression 12" on August 23rd, it quickly
    intensified into 'Tropical Storm Katrina' - the eleventh named storm
    in
    one of the busiest hurricane seasons in history. Making landfall near
    Miami on the 24th, Katrina had grown into a small hurricane -
    'category
    one' on the Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Scale - with 125 km/hr winds that
    killed nine people and knocked out power to one million residents.

    Crossing over Florida to the Gulf of Mexico where it wandered for four
    days, Katrina underwent a monstrous and largely unexpected
    transformation.
    Siphoning vast quantities of energy from the Gulf's abnormally warm
    waters - 3 degrees centrigrade above their usual August temperature -
    Katrina mushroomed into an awesome, top-of-the-scale 'class five'
    hurricane with 290 km/hr winds that propelled tsunami-like storm
    surges
    nearly ten meters in height. (Nature later reported that Katrina
    absorbed so much heat from the Gulf that "water temperatures dropped
    dramatically after it had passed, in some regions from 30 C to 26 C.")
    Horrified meteorologists had rarely seen a Caribbean hurricane
    replenish
    its power so dramatically, and researchers debated whether or not
    Katrina's explosive growth was a portent of global warming's impact on
    hurricane intensity.

    Although Katrina had dropped to 'category four' (210-249 km/hr winds)
    by
    the time it careened ashore in Plaquemines Parish, Louisiana, near the
    mouth of the Mississippi river on early Monday, August 29th, it was
    small
    consolation to the doomed oil ports, fishing camps, and Cajun villages
    in
    its direct path. In Plaquemines, and then again on the Gulf Coast of
    Mississippi and Alabama, Katrina churned the bayous with relentless
    wrath,
    leaving behind a devastated landscape that looked like a watery
    Hiroshima.

  14. #14
    Registered User sanfranjouvay's Avatar sanfranjouvay is offline
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    Metropolitan New Orleans, with its 1.3 million inhabitants, was
    originally
    dead center in Katrina's way, but the hurricane veered to the right
    after
    landfall and its eye passed 55 kilometers to the east of the
    metropolis.
    The Big Easy - largely under sea-level and bordered by the salt-water
    embayments known as Lake Pontchartrain (on the north) and Lake Borgne
    (on
    the east) - was spared the worst of Katrina's winds but not its
    waters.

    Hurricane-driven storm surges from both lakes broke through the
    notoriously inadequate levees - not as tall as in more affluent areas
    -
    which guard Black-majority eastern New Orleans as well as adjacent
    white
    blue-collar suburbs in St. Bernard Parish. There was no warning and
    the
    rapidly rising waters trapped and killed hundreds,of unevacuated
    people in
    their bedrooms, including 34 elderly residents of a nursing home.
    Later,
    probably around midday, a more formidable floodwall gave way at the
    17th
    Street Canal, allowing Lake Pontchartrain to pour into city's low-
    lying
    central districts. Although New Orleans's most famous tourist
    assets,
    including the French Quarter and the Garden District, and its most
    patrician neighborhoods, like Audubon Park and Lakeshore, are built on
    high ground and survived the inundation, the rest of the city was
    flooded
    to its rooftops or higher, damaging or destroying more than 250,000
    housing units. Locals promptly dubbed it 'Lake George' after the
    president who failed to build new levees or come to their aid after
    the
    old ones had burst.

    Although Bush later claimed that "the storm didn't discriminate,"
    every
    aspect of the catastrophe was in fact shaped by inequalities of class
    and
    race. In addition to unmasking the fraudulent claims of the
    Department of
    Homeland Security to make Americans safer, the 'shock and awe' of
    Katrina
    also exposed the devastating consequences of the federal neglect of
    majority Black and Latino big cities and their vital infrastructures.
    The staggering incompetence of the Federal Emergency Management Agency
    (FEMA) demonstrated the folly of entrusting life-and-death public
    mandates
    to clueless political appointees and ideological foes of 'big
    government.'
    And the speed with which Washington suspended the prevailing wage
    standards of the Davis-Bacon Act and swung open the doors of New
    Orleans
    to corporate looters like Halliburton, the Shaw Group, and Blackwater
    Security - already fat from the spoils of the Tigris - contrasted
    obscenely with FEMA's deadly procrastination over sending water, food
    and
    buses to the multitudes trapped in the stinking hell of the Louisiana
    Superdome.

  15. #15
    Registered User sanfranjouvay's Avatar sanfranjouvay is offline
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    But if New Orleans - as many of its bitter exiles now believe - was
    allowed to die as a result of governmental incompetence and neglect,
    the
    blame also squarely falls on the Governor's Mansion in Baton Rouge
    and,
    especially, City Hall on Perdido Street. Mayor C. Ray Nagin - a
    wealthy
    African-American cable television executive who was elected in 2002
    with
    87 percent of the white vote - was ultimately responsible for the
    safety
    of the estimated one-quarter of the population that was too poor or
    infirm
    to own a car. His stunning failure to mobilize resources to evacuate
    carless residents and hospital patients - despite warning signals from
    the
    city's botched response to the threat of Hurricane Ivan in September
    2004
    - reflected more than personal ineptitude: it was also a symbol of the
    callous attitude amongst New Orleans' elites, both white and black,
    toward
    their poor neighbors in the backswamp districts and rundown housing
    projects. Indeed, the ultimate revelation of Hurricane Katrina -
    striking the Gulf Coast shortly after the fortieth anniversary of the
    Voting Rights Act of 1965 - was how comprehensively the promise of
    equal
    rights for poor African-Americans has been dishonored and betrayed by
    every level of government.

    WHERE'S THE CALVARY?

    The death of New Orleans, of course, had been forewarned; indeed no
    disaster in American history had been so accurately predicted in
    advance.
    Although Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff would later
    claim
    that "the size of the storm was beyond anything his department could
    have
    anticipated," this was flatly untrue. If scientists were surprised
    by
    Katrina's sudden burgeoning to super-storm dimensions, they had grim
    confidence in exactly what New Orleans could expect from the landfall
    of a
    great hurricane. "The sad part," one researcher lamented after
    Katrina
    had passed, "is that we called this 100 percent."

    Since the nasty experience of Hurricane Betsy in September 1965 - a
    Category 2 storm that inundated many of the eastern parts of Orleans
    Parish that were drowned again by Katrina - the vulnerability of New
    Orleans to wind-driven storm surges has been intensively studied and
    widely publicised. In 1998, after another close call with Hurricane
    Georges, research was ramped up, and a sophisticated computer study by
    Louisiana State University warned of the "virtual destruction" of the
    city
    by Category 4 storm approaching from the southwest. New Orleans'
    levees and stormwalls are only designed to withstand a Category 3
    hurricane, but even that threshold of protection was revealed as
    illusory
    in computer simulations adopted last year by the Army Corps of
    Engineers.
    The continuous erosion of southern Louisiana's barrier islands and
    bayou
    wetlands (an estimated annual shoreline loss of 60 to 100 square
    kilometers) increases the height of storm surges as they arrive at New
    Orleans, while the city itself, along with its levees, is slowly
    sinking.
    As a result even a Category 3 hurricane, if slow moving, would now
    flood
    most of the city. Global warming and sea-level rise will only make
    the
    'Big One' - as folks in New Orleans, like their counterparts in Los
    Angeles, call the local apocalypse - even bigger.

    Lest politicians have difficulty understanding the implications of
    such
    predictions, other studies modeled the exact extent of flooding as
    well as
    the expected casualties in the event of direct hit. Supercomputers
    kept
    cranking out the same horrifying numbers: 160 square kilometers or
    more of
    the city under water with 80,000 to 100,000 dead - the worst disaster
    in
    American history. In the light of these studies, FEMA in 2001 warned
    that a hurricane flood in New Orleans was one of the three
    mega-catastrophes most likely to strike the United States in near
    future
    (along with a California earthquake and a terrorist attack on
    Manhattan).
    Shortly afterwards, Scientific American published an account of the
    flood
    danger ("Drowning New Orleans") which, like a subsequent award-winning
    series in the Times-Picayune in 2002 ("The Big One'), was chillingly
    accurate in its warnings. Last year, after meteorologists predicted
    a
    strong upsurge in hurricane activity, federal officials carried out an
    elaborate disaster drill ("Hurricane Pam") which again re-confirmed
    that
    casualties would be likely in the tens of thousands.

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