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interesting

No surprises for me in the video, just informing.

My main focus for starting this thread was not for Christians to be insulted or thrown off by the comments in the beginning of the video but to look at and grasp the facts presented throughout the short clip regarding the jesus figure and its symbolism that permeates throughout religions since the beginning and the HIDDEN truth/meaning.

Without understanding the truth behind all this jesus mumbo jumbo (first steps), we will never progress to be the powerful creators we were meant to be and realize our true relationship with god/nature/mother earth/universe/one another.

I see. You do know, however, that for the most part, you are preaching to the choir. People don't want to be confused by facts when it is far easier to just believe;, by faith that is.

There is OVERWHELMING evidence that the Jesus of the Gospels was nothing more than a mythical figure OR a mere man with religious charisma who taught a new and more accessible way to seek the god of the Jews, something that caught on with the common man but infuriated the religious establishment. He was removed and his followers over time elevated him to divine status in the most common myth of the era, a dying and rising savior god whose purpose was to save mankind.

Problem is that not all his claims are correct. While I like his video for a lot that is said, some of his claims just don't add up. First, Jesus was never claimed as being born on December 25th. That was a later conversion by Constantine of Saturnalia. There were no three kings. All we know is that among the gifts there was gold, frankincense and myrrh. There are others, but I can't access the video right now. I do believe that if Jesus existed, the religion that formed around him after his death borrowed heavily from other religions.

A good thread that post that debates the same thing.

Or this one.

Again, just like Christianity itself, don't take the movie claims as gospel either.

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Yes, I too agree that some of the claims are indeed a stretch and while I, not a believer by ANY stretch, would love to believe all that is said in the first part of the film in relation to Christianity, I can't say I agree with some of the things stated. First of all, that there are similarities between ancient gods and the Jesus myth is enough without having to stretch.

The author up top may not have read the Bacchae by the Greek tragedy writer, Euripedes. He wrote his work about 400 years before there was a Jesus; the Bacchae being a story about the Greek god Dionysus or as he was later called in Rome, Bacchus (our word Bacchanal derives from his name). Here are some excerpts from the Bacchae which might sound very familiar when it comes to the story of Jesus:


DIONYSUS: I've arrived here in the land of Thebes,
I, Dionysus, son of Zeus, born to him
from Semele, Cadmus' daughter, delivered
by a fiery midwife—Zeus' lightning flash.
Yes, I've changed my form from god to human

Compare this to the Jesus story where the holy spirit "comes upon" Mary in what has been depicted as a bright light. An interesting side note is that it was believed that Dionysus' mother, Semele, was only pregnant for 7 months (line 119 in the Bacchae). According to the Gospel of Hebrews (a popular book in the early Christian movement which did not make the cut as part of the biblical canon), Mary was also only pregnant for 7 months.


That's why I've transformed myself,
assumed a mortal shape, altered my looks,
so I resemble any human being.


Compare this to the claim of later New Testament writers who claimed that Jesus set aside his deity to associate himself with mortal men.


When Dionysus is brought before Pentheus, the king of Thebes, who also happens to be a relative, Pentheus mocks him for claiming to represent God/the gods, much less seeing Dionysus as a god stating he cannot see this god Dionysus is referring to. Pentheus refuses to accept and acknowledge the new religion Dionysus comes to introduce. Sounds familiar? In one exchange they go back and forth with these words:


PENTHEUS: Where is he then? My eyes don't see him.

DIONYSUS: He's where I am. You can't see him,
because you don't believe.

Compare this to the High Priest interrogating Jesus before his crucifixion asking him if he (Jesus) was the one. When Jesus replied, the high priest cries out that his reply was proof he (Jesus) was a blasphemer, basically claiming to be one with God. Also, remember when Jesus told his Disciples that because thy have seen him, they have seen the father ho sent him. After Dionysus' reply, Pentheus asked the guards to seize Dionysus.


Dionysus continues after he is arrested:

I'll go, then. For I won't have to suffer
what won't occur. But you can be sure of this—
Dionysus, whom you claim does not exist,
will go after you for retribution
after all your insolence. He's the one
you put in chains when you treat me unjustly.


Compare the above to these verses in Mark 14:


And they led Jesus away to the high priest; and with him were assembled all the chief priests, the elders, and the scribes. But Peter followed Him at a distance, right into the courtyard of the high priest. And he sat with the servants and warmed himself at the fire. Now the chief priests and all the council sought testimony against Jesus to put Him to death, but found none. For many bore false witness against Him, but their testimonies did not agree.
Then some rose up and bore false witness against Him, saying, “We heard Him say, ‘I will destroy this temple made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.’” But not even then did their testimony agree. And the high priest stood up in the midst and asked Jesus, saying, “Do You answer nothing? What is it these men testify against You?” But He kept silent and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” Jesus said, “I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.” Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “What further need do we have of witnesses? You have heard the blasphemy! What do you think?” And they all condemned Him to be deserving of death. (Mark 14:53-64)

When Pentheus' soldiers brought Dionysus to him this was their report:

Pentheus, we're here because we've caught the prey 540
you sent us out to catch. Yes, our attempts
have proved successful. The beast you see here
was tame with us. He didn't try to run.
No, he surrendered willingly enough

Compare "sheep led [willingly] to slaughter."

what is the overwhelming evidence about jesus, 24/7?

Should rephrase that actually. Should have said that there is quite a bit of evidence to the contrary that the Jesus of the Gospels was/is a mythical figure or at least, the fantasy stories in the Gospels are contrived. You don't even have to go past the book of Matthew.

I didn't have time to respond earlier to your second paragraph regarding overwhelming evidence as highlighted above but I see you rephrased.

Speaking of Matthew, I came across a collection of stories of Ancient Egypt that bears striking resemblance to the gospels. Some of the original papyrus can still be seen in the cairo museum. One particular story called The Veritable History of Satmi-Khamois stands out in relation to the topic at hand:

Satmi's prophetic dream is repeated in Matthew 1:20-23, where the angel comes to Joseph in a dream
Later on Senosiris' learning and wisdom is also repeated in Luke 2:41-52 when Jesus at the age of 12 is found by his parents in the temple.

Yes, one only has to take a casual read through the book of Matthew and realize that Matthew, the so-called "Gospel to the Jews," is the work of someone who had no qualms about bending, stretching or fabricating the truth as a means to have his Jesus fit into seemingly apparent "prophecies." The funny thing is, as much as the truth, or lack thereof, is right there in black and white, what people are told is true is what people believe to be the truth.

A story found in Matthew and only in the book of Matthew, for example, is the story of Herod ordering the killings of all infants under the age of 2 in an attempt to kill the baby Jesus. No other Gospel or contemporary writer of the times mentions such an act, not even the Jewish historian, Josephus, who wrote extensively and disparagingly about Herod. The story, however, can be found in India in relation to the god Krishna who, as a child, was sought to be killed and in the process, little children were ordered killed in an attempt to weed out the child Krishna. To make matters worse, the writer of Matthew then quotes a prophecy from the book of Jeremiah that, when read correctly, has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Herod's alleged infanticide. The myth comes down to nothing more than a recycled story passed down since ancient times in one form or another of some jealous tyrant who seeks to kill a special child whom he or she deems as a threat to their throne or power be it Perseus or Krishna.

outside of the bible where is the evidence that he did exist and do supernatural things?



and please dont mention Tacitus

I think it is best said by this person:

Third option. Jesus existed, was influenced by many teachings of his day, remember that many Jews migrated back to Israel since the first tearing down of the temple. His beliefs and teachings were influenced by many prior schools of thought, he died and people who followed him deified him by borrowing from popular mythology of the day.