IslandMix

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if you respond, please tell by number what whine you are responding to.

1. the ultimate dynamic: the absolute dynamic that describes the relationship between god and servant is thus: "god, please save me from hell, I love you because you saved me from hell, I worship you because I love you because you saVED me from hell, please remember to save me from hell,

believers may say that this is no what they are thinking about when they worship. but by the great chain of references and by the power of the realm of the opposites, hell, and salvation from it, are in the subconscious awareness of every believer

2. what is wrong with the seventh day adventists, the universalists, and the jehova witnesses?

somethings wrong with them. they dont believe in hell. they dont even like it. why? whats different between their views and "compassion levels" and that of a hell loving "too bad for you dumbass" fundamentalists/evangelists?

their entire dynamic of relationship to their divine master is radically different than the other dynamic. sure, they use the same words, but the way they understand these words is different.

one of htese guys is going to hell, or none of them.
the point is, their relationship is different between the individual and god based on a difference in understanding of who god is and what his place is in the great chain of being.

3. is gods plan perfect? people are going to hell right?

someone is going to hell

even a universalist admits that satan is probably going to hell...

so the ultimate master plan of the ultimate creator includes SOME conscious THING being TORMENTED for all time

we are used to these ideas so we dont question. but it is deeply screwed up.

believers love bullcrap like the idea of "the greater good"

horseshit

we are dealing with allmighty god, there shouldnt be a good/greater/lesser trade off going on

if one thing is being tormented for all time, well is that really such a great plan?

4. the point of all of this is?....????

so we have this life on earth... it is "temporal" meaning that the next life is everlasting.

so is the point of all this to give humans the opportunity to not go to hell?

the way I see it, the way god designed everything makes for lots of people going to hell. infact the whole idea of free will is saying "im making it possible for all the dumb ass humans to go to hell.
\
GGGGRRRREEEEEAAAAATTT!!!

5. so again. what makes person a different from person b?

why does one person choose god and another reject god.

there HAS TO BE SOME INTRINSIC REASON WITHIN THE CREATION BLUEPRINTS OF EACH INDIVIDUAL HUMAN tHAT DETERMINES HOW THAT HUMAN WILL INTERACT WITH REALITY

THERE JHUST HAS TO BE

IM YELLING BECAUSE THIS IS EXCEEDINGLY IMPORTANT...

6. are people going to hell that could hjave been going to heaven?

this is what believers imply when they say "make the choice before its too late"

or

"We have to reach those living in spiritual darkness (like catholics, athiests and buddhists)"

so you mena god wanted these people in heaven but WHOOPSIE they died before they made the right choice

or WHOOPSIE we never reached them intime to give them the good news.

7. how ...ing idiotic are believers for the following two ideas

"well once they hear the good news, they have everything they need to make the right choice"

newsflash you wannabe isiah!.... giving non christians the good news is akin to a hindu giving YOU the good news of siva and kali. so, when are you gonna xome eat some parsad with us? ass holes


or "well god gives people what they want, so richard dawkins will get whatr he wants"


newsflash you intellectually deficient nutjobs!!!: i doubt that richard dawkins wants to sit in a lake of fire for all time, i doubt also that he wants to be separated eternally from the tangible effects of every positively connotate-d word in the language!

believers act like they dont know how someone like dawkins thinks. well they probably dont, but thats not the whole shebang

first off, this is what dawkins and ;people of his ilk think: religion is bad, not true, and very harmful to us as a developing humanity. they are trying to educate it and break the chains. OHO so they, in their minds are trying to help.. why, GASP! its almost NOBLE of them!....


so believers dont get that, and for the shebang, they extrapolate that god himself doesnt understand this either. I can just see their mental picture of jesus about to throw dawkins into a burning lake of fire saying "here you go dawkins, its what you wanted, you cursed!"


8. please give me a good response to point number 5 please!!!


here is a problem I have with many religions:

if we are created by a creator and (or by nature)

whatever we do, is what we are designed to do.

do you guys see this? what is the opinion?

ive been thinking aboout this.... possibly choice is a mere illusion.


a lot of african traditional belief systems dont have an understanding of "would" "should" or "could"

what hasppens just happens.

well it is interesting to think about


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the condensed version


what determines who discovers real spiritual salvation, and what determines why some one would follow it or not?

gotta be a reason inherent in the design that foretells what your every impulse will be as "you" interact with "reality"

sure it looks like every action we make is a choice, but in the end... we respond to a given set of parameters in the way we were designed to do



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9. i dare you, i double dog dare you


justify eternally tormenting someone

please

I want you to

also describe how it is possible for someone to interaqct in any way with a temporal reality and then justly recieve eternal torments



well i doubt anyone on here would... but.... many in the other worlds would


10.

oh i love this one

believers say this all the time

"Well you wouldnt want all the rapists and nasty people in heaven anyway, they get what they deserve.


OOOHOOOO I thought the point of your belief was about salvation and forgiveness? according to the good book, YOU deserve hell just as much as the murderer and hitler

are you getting these rhetorical arguments form a preacher? (must be, .... I SWEAR all these nutjobs think alike in SOME ways (the ways that count to god, they can use the rest of their minds for whatever the hell they want!)

god help us if preachers are this dumb. oh, they are, and god only helps you if you pray to him. jesus needs a kick in the face everynow and then so he is reminded by prayer to do things like protect somneones baby or deliver a sufferer from cancer....

anyway, the bible clearly states that everyone deserves hell

11. so people all deserve hell? okay.

so god wants to save some people from what they deserve

okay

but not all people? or....

well bloodyu WHAT

does he want us to go to hell or not

and again what the bloody hell is the differentce between the person that went to hell and that went to heaven

is god just sitting htere like\: alas, poor yorik, why did he not choose me, now he has to burn... aaaahhhh, worshipers!! puuurrrrr



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12 (the big one)

we are machines, if you will (dear christiaN NUTJOBS, IM ASKING YOU TO USE THE LANGUAGE CAPACITY TO STRETCH IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND, NO, I AM NOT SAYING THAT HUMANS ARE DUMPTRUCKS OR LAWNMOWERS, IM ASKING YOU TO IMAGINE WHAT WE ARE DESIGNED TO DO, SINCE WE ARE AFTER ALL INTELLIGENTLY DESIGNED, AND MACHINE IS A WORD THAT HELPS ONE TO ELUCIDATE THE POINT... DUMMIES! )

IF YOU WILL, WE ARE MACHINES

AN D WE THINK

A THOUGHT IS AN IMPULSE IN OUR MIND THAT creates ideas for the "I" to "understand"


so

when it all boils down to it

god wants us to use our minds the way he wants us to use them

i cant say this enough, I also dont know how to say whaT i MEAN, BUT ONCE YOU GET IT, ALL FAITH BASED RELIGION MAY SEEM LIKE FOLLY.

IF IT DOESNT SEeM LIKE FOLLY, THEN YOU DONT UNDERSTAND WHAT i AM SAYING AND i HOPE i CAN EXPLAIN IT

i dont5 know how to explain it so i will give examples


there is a part of me that KNOWs jesus is real and that the bible is true

so am I saved?

or is it just a doubt (a doubt in my athiest faith that is)

the whole thing is silly, i cant explain it and I dont know how

there is a part of me that thinks it is all in my head.

i make use of this idea mnore than the other one

bewcause everytime i think that jesus ios real i just realize h ow \many people are heading for hell, and I get to over whelmed with horror to keep that thought/.

the point is

i have had that thought, i have mader the necessary thought i need to make in order to be saved, or have I

if a christian thinks every now and then "you know, maybe its all in the mind" (and the way some of these intellectually deficient nutjobs talk, i wouldnt be suprized if they NEVER pondered that theyt could be wrong)

is thatr bad?

is it just a DOUBT?

i know a common p rayer is for god to remove as many doubts as possible

so salvation depends on how well we match up our interpretation of reality with what it says in the bible
\
it depends on how firm our belief is that the bible a nd jesus is true!

again, i cant describe what I am attempting to convey

buit I will think about it and try and return

the bottom line is this" god wants us to think the right thoughts"

its just silly
but i dont know how to get you to see it in the silly way I see it.

anyone elkse want to keep this reasoning going???