IslandMix

first of all, im going to say that I am intrigued by eastern practices, I do yoga and wing chun martial arts... I love pranayama breathing, but still, I am not enculterated to fully grok (grasp) the eastern philosophies. I do not know much about african stuff. I have read massey's work on ancient egypt mythology, and I love the IFA cosmology and culture that is made famous in nigeria and spread throughout the african diaspora in religions such as cuban and puerto rican santeria and lukumi, and brazilian candoble, trinidadian shango baptists... and the fragmented, re interpreted, recombined, and deeply personal world of voudon is fascinating, especially when looking at its ancestors among the fon and other people (the names escape me at the moment, but I have some nice books)

so if anyone knows about AFRICAN mystic/shamanic techniques, feel free to enlighten. All I have really studied is the works of Na Im Akbar, a psychologist and professor of black psychology. He tries to show african descendants of slavery how to reclaim their identity in the context of what he percieves as a traditional african cosmology... I recommend his books highly!

Recently, I am getting into native central, north and south american shamanic practices because they seem like they mesh well with our western/european/capitalist mind frame... Jung is a great guru, so is krishnamurti and Castaneda and Crowley. I have not begun to read other indians, buddhists, or Rumi, who I cannot wait to read.

so what is wrong with eastern stuff?

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

By all means, give eastern stuff a shot! Yoga is beneficial even if one isnt necessarily elevating all their shakras and acheiving the highest enlightenment! SO are eastern martial arts, breathing excercises, meditation work/theories, and philosophy.

But westerners (europeans, americans, canadians, hispanics, people in colonized countries (to an extent), westerners in foreign countries (to an extent) and anyone that has been signifigantly enculturated into western states of mind, will find it difficult to really master or comprehend eastern stuff.

Try it out!

Talk to people that have done it for years. Unless they are lucky or very good, chances are, they canot clear their mind or experience the one ness that they seek. It is just not part of our culture or frame of reference or developed mind state.

It can be done and grasped, but it is exceedingly challenging for non easterners to do this and succeed.

Are there results to be achieved through becomming envolved in eastern practices. SURE!

should we discuss that stuff in this group? SURE!

But the focus is on techniques developed by native american (north, central or south) shamans, as well as european and american gurus and thinkers.

This is hard for this mind to explain! As it clarifies, posts will be made!

To begin: The concepts or ideas of I, you, and me (common concepts in english, german, romance, and other languages) are very weird.

A human learns to think by doing it, and by experiencing, and by doing it again. Learning never stops. At the moment of death, one is learning how to die.

I am clearly no expert on the learning process of infants and children, and research in these areas would be beneficial. But based on contemplation, it is evident that some of the most basic concepts one of us needs in order to think, is the concept of "I." You must think about this. What, exactly, is "I?" good luck thinking about it, lol :)

It could be looked at like this. What does the mind do? It sees and hears and touches and tastes and smells. What else? It thinks. What is thinking? Thinking is linking words/symbols/ together. Can we think without usuing language? I am not sure.

To experience something interesting. Examine what happens when you are thinking to yourself. Consider any thought that you may have. For example: "I really love the taste of delicious apple pie and vanilla ice cream" When I had this thought, I already knew what it was, before I actually typed it out, or said it in my head. I didnt even need to think of the words "I really love." I had the complete idea/meaning, just about instantly.

This is called thought clipping. Try it out when you think to yourself. Have a thought that you might normally say aloud or think aloud in your head. You should realize that you do not "need" to say it aloud or think it aloud. With the example sentance, chances are that you already know what the whole sentance will be, before you have said the words "I really love"

This leads to other thoughts. How is it possible that we are able to think of an idea without putting it into language? Are we really just instantly thinking in language, but not actually realizing it? I dont know, Im sure some book has the answer. I am still a neophyte, but you have to admit, this is interesting.

If we start to clip thoughts, we wil lrealize we can have thoughts a lot faster. I wonder how fast? Are we using language to do this thinking or something else? again, I do not know. My guess is that the languages we know train us how to think.

Well anyway, this conversation needs to get back to the point. That is: I, me and you. We have a habit of being "bicameral" I have not researched this enough, but there are good books outthere. To briefly explain: we have a tendency to create "other" beings in our heads, in order to think.

For example, let us say your name is bob. If bob is thinking about his school work, how might he do it?

"gee, I have a lot of schoolwork, I wonder what I should do first"

"will my professor email me about my missed class? I hope so"

This seems normal enough. We can talk for hours about what exactly "I" is. I is a needed tool in language. I think that the point of thinking about it is to realize how profoundly it affects the thoughts that we make. Every know and then, remind yourself that all you are is a mind making ideas. Try it, you will like it! Back to Bob. Does this sound familiar?

"Gee Bob, you have a lot of schoolwork! What will you do first"

wait a sec. This is Bob thinking right? Who is "you?" Well duh, bob is talking to himself! The "You" is obviously Bob! Right? Well, then who is doing the thinking? Who is asking Bob: "gee bob, you have a lot of schoolwork, dont you?"

AHA! Well obviously, the person doing the asking is BOB! Bob is just talking to himself!

Yes, but we have to realize that Bob has in a sense created at least two "persons" in order for him to sort his thoughts.

People do this a lot.

Some people do it a lot a lot a lot!

"gee bob, what should you do first? I dont know, I dont really feel like doing math. I know, neither do I, and dont you want to call that girl before its too late? yeah but I think I should do at least one assignemnt Ok, but lets not do math right now, lets do that reading for history. Yeah, good idea! Thanks. No, thank you!"

This may seem extreme, but a lot of people have gotten carried away with self dialogues. This can be helpful for self examining. But one has to remember that in the end, there is just one mind creating thoughts. We saw that bob started refering to his thoughts as a "us" when he said "but lets do math right now"

woah! Bob is getting a little crazy huh. Not necessarily.

Well anyway, THINK ABOUT IT!

and do the following excercise!

Start using I and Me less and less. you is acceptable when talking to another human or an animal :)

He and she and it, are also acceptable.

I and me (and you, when thinking to oneself, but not when talking to another), should, however, be eliminated, for the sake of this excercise.

Obviously the ideas of I and me (and the created, internal YOu, that is really me lol) are hgelpful for thinking, and for explaining, and for participating with other people.

But you will still gain insight from trying to limit the use!

Remember to do it in your head if you can. If you find this difficult, start by doing it aloud when no one is looking.

If you have nothing to think about, describe something. Either something in your head, or something around you. You could also describe concepts that you are studying in school.

By the way, work on eliminating we and us as well. For starters, one must eliminate the first and second person as much as possible, and just think in the third person... for added enjoyment, try eliminating the third persons as well. besides I, me and you, dont forget mine, yours, ours and let's... (etc)

here are examples

Instead of saying "I like eggs" say "eggs are tasty" or "the tastebuds of awareness are pleasently stimulated by succulent scrambled eggs!"

Instead of saying "ok, I will work on modern shaman techniques in this online group" say "the modern shaman techniques will be worked on!"

describe things, make poems! "the road is dry, the road is long, the road is trapped in silly songs, the road is walked on the road is black, by the road, there is a sack!"

instead of thinking "I am going to the gym" think "the gym will soon be used" " or "these muscles must be worked out"

This can get tricky. It will lead you to realize how one thinks, and how the way one thinks can be changed. It will also show you how pointless internal thinking might be! In the gym example, do we really need to say to ourselves "these muscles are about to burn!" or "this gym is about to have one more occupant"

when phrased this way, the silliness or uselessness of thinking in language (sometimes)becomes apparant. You dont NEED to say those things. You already know what you are doing or are about to do, right? Do you need to think about it? Do you need to talk about it?

Maybe we can just focus on and exist in reality! If we describe reality, we are distorting what it is. You might not realize what I am saying. So stick around!

This excercise will become very challenging when talking with someone else. If they get annoyed by you. revert back to using I and me. You dont want them to start calling you yoda, or just get mad at you (WTF DO YOU MEAN, THE BURGER'S SIGHT CAUSES THE OCULAR EXPERIENCE TO BE ENJOYABLE TO THE VESSEL OF CONSCIOUSNESS????)

Another thing, we want to clear our minds right? Well one of the steps is to realize what thought and language is and how they constantly effect us. Will we ever be able to clear our mind like a buddhist or yogi? Maybe not. But western excercises like this, can get us closer and closer.

wWhat is experiencing/What is percieving?/what is creating?/Is creation/manipulation hapening?

Based on what can be realized from the I you and me blurb. It can be seen that everything is consciousness. Everything is A: input from the "so called" senses. (we have to keep in mind that EVERYTHING is a symbol). B: there is something else. It is what we would label "I." (I think) It is the thing that appears to have some degree of active interaction with what could be labeled an experience or perception.

Remember that something is only an experience or perception if something else is experiencing or percieving! (Is this BS yet? )

so what is?

lol

Seriously! (lol)

So, borrowing from what I do somewhat comprehend of the signifigance of Kali... IT could be stated that nothing "exists" because "reality" is thought of/experienced because we (something in this "experience) appears to have the ability to manifest "something" (thoughts, sensory changes).... so "we" are not our bodies. "We" is an idea.... well gee! isnt this fascinating?

I have no idea what needs to be said or what should be said next. BUt somewhere in here, is something cool.

you can on one level, say "I AM!" (and this is a big component of Kali)

I think a better statement might be: "THERE IS!" but I bet I am wrong.

so how can this "THING" that seems to have a degree of influence on "THIS" (everything)... be described? Babies have it, they just dont call it anything.

well I dont know what the hell to type next.

I need sleep!

crap!

just realized something else?

Is consciousness changing? You might say yes! But I would say: "changing from what?"

does this make sense?