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Matthew 24 was nor is speaking of our times. The scope of those prophecies were for the very generation within which they were given. The proof is right there within that passage as well as others.

Ok, carry on.

For me, it pretty clear when it says the sign of your coming and the end of the world.... It does make any sense that Jesus would be talking about right then and there, when He had already come the first time. Not to mention, those things are on the increase right now.

But of course, you are free to believe what you'd like. But I thought you don't believe in the Bible at all?

that is true there is scientific evidence that proves all religious zealots share a common gene

believing in God or believing in a particular religion

God is not the problem religion is

Religion isn't the problem, people choices are...

I am treating this subjectively. A subject was brought up and I am dealing with the topic whether or not I believe in the Bible.

The Jews believed they were living in the end of time. Their belief was reflected in Jesus' apocalyptic teachings and it is evident from his [alleged] words he too believed or taught the end of time was near. The way many Christians understand this passage of scripture is a perfect example of wishful thinking based on a preconceived idea. The thinking is that since Jesus has not returned as yet then the "signs" mentioned in this passage are still occurring and thus his return is still a future event. Nothing could be further from the truth.

First of all, Jesus continuously refers to his Disciples in this passage. He uses words like "ye, "you," "your." They asks the questions about the end of time and his return and he constantly tells them that THEY are the ones who will be witnesses to said signs and said return. If one HONESTLY look at the chapter, they CANNOT come away with any other idea than the fact Jesus was speaking of the generation of people in his immediate audience.

The most telling verses in this chapter are verses 33 and 34 which reads:


So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

Their generation would see the signs and when they see them, they were to know the end was near even at their very doors and to prove this was the understanding of the day, one only has to look at Revelation chapter 1 verse 1 where the writer claiming to receive this revelation from Jesus Christ tells his audience that he writes these things to them to show them things that were to shortly come to pass.

There is more proof to this end, but I will stop here.

It's just interesting that you are so positive of the meaning of something that you don't believe in. Many non-religions people seem to be very into "religion"...

I believe it's quite clear that it is general message about the end times. If those things did not occur by the end of the disciple's lifetimes, then it is relevant for every generation until it does occur. That's clear to me from the entire chapter. Not to mention, it's consistent with other parts of the Bible that discuss end times.

We can agree to disagree.

Respectfully, I don't know what this has to do with the subject at hand? Are you implying that because I do not believe in something I cannot discuss it and discuss it with any accuracy?

I hate politics too. I'm not a politician nor do aspire to be yet I discuss it because it affects me, is a part of my world and is relevant accordingly. Non religious people discuss religion because some of us came out of it, much like a person who has come out of a life of crime and/or drugs even though they are not participating in either anymore. Religion makes certain universal claims, claims that state you "better believe this or that or else" and non-religious people basically provide the other perspective. The "truth" as they uphold is not always as advertised. The non-religious provide an opposing point of view. Imagine if they were not around.


What is consistent, Dahlin, is that the New Testament writers ALL believe Jesus was to return within their generation. Why shouldn't they? He specifically told those within his audience that there were some of them standing before him who would NOT taste death before he, Jesus, returned. In the book of Matthew he also tells his Disciples that they would not complete their preaching throughout Israel before he, Jesus returns. In the book of Mark while standing before the high priest, Jesus is asked if he was the Christ. He tells him he is and then tells him that that same high priest will be witness to him (Jesus) returning in glory with his angels. That high priest is long dead of course an Jesus has still not returned.

To me, there's a difference between discussing religion and being VERY into it when a person is not "religious." It's just interesting when people are extremely into it in such a way...


Like I stated, we can agree to disagree.

Do you also find equally interesting when people are heavily into ancient Greek or Egyptian mythology ,Dungeons and Dragons,star wars.... and have lengthy debates over them yet do not believe for an instant any of them or are real?

incidentally those subjects don't even have the VERY significant impact on the lives of people living today the way Christianity,Islam,Judaism do.








if you think ah lie just look at poor Sebas who is going(or already gone) insane

Cool @ ancient Greek of Egyptian mythology. I have educated myself about Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Shango etc and respect those people who practice those faiths, it doesn't impact me enough to have post upon post online/debates very frequently as I do not practice those faiths. That's why it is interesting when others are this way. That's just me...

Yes, it is indeed interesting. I would wager that the non-religious who are "VERY into it" are probably those who were really into it when they were indeed "religious." The passion to discuss things religious has NOT changed, just the position of belief or non-belief if you wish.

Why we would we have answers when we're the ones questioning?

I'm more of a spiritual person and I believe in good character, Karma , and simply discovering my inner self by meditating and things like that. And that's how I live my life. I just refuse to have anyone force their religion or their God on me. I do however, believe that there must be a higher something, or just one source of all existence.....

As far as fixing the worlds problems, people are doing it or at least trying to do it...but it's obviously not enough people helping out. We can undo the problems that we've caused.

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consider the possiblity that i am really damned for real, and it is not so called "insanity" .... i am sure west indians are familiar with the idea of the damned or the "=devils own" or the demons or witches going nutty, right?

f this is the case, heed my warning in the other thread.

if this is not the case, then I am a "shaman" just like a shaman in any other walk of religious ideas... someone who is in direct contact with hte "spirit world" of their persuasion, and offers a special insight into the great mysteries of that world view...

but Christianity in this country does impact .
Lets be frank,there is a certain segment of the Christian community(and i know that you are not part of it) that many people find very audacious,intrusive,self righteous, self entitled,ignorant,simple minded,imposing...and many other people that find them dead wrong.
Normally you wont find that much opposition or scrutiny anymore than you would find opposition or scrutiny to people that believe in astrology

When these people the chrisian community are at a level where they are enforcing public policy,electing officials that hold this view point or maybe even placing churches on corner to corner they hold their belief system up for serious discussion and people will find holes in it if they are to be found and put them on blast.Is is just the natural reaction to popularity.

Imagine if a presidential nominee said he was a firm believer in astrology(which many of us relegate to a section in the sunday paper) and lived his life by astrology and found it to not only inspire him/her but guide their decisions on a day to day basis.
the very second this person started winning many votes , influencing public or laws astrology would be thrown under the magnifying glass just the same.