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Light360 · 12-08-2005, 12:47 AM

Do you consider God to be He or She? Or Both?

If God is everything then God can NOT be a he alone, to be everything would include duality, he and she.

Think outside the box for me on this.

soca_souljah · 12-08-2005, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by Queen of Sanity

Do you consider God to be He or She? Or Both?

If God is everything then God can NOT be a he alone, to be everything would include duality, he and she.

Think outside the box for me on this.

Neither ! Jesus was a man ..... not God

Being dat he created all of generations of mankind (human) which can be witness jus as in a womans pregnancy(human creation) But then again he is mention in the bible as "THE FATHER" who knows

I jus think God is a divine spirit

Sencia · 12-08-2005, 02:12 AM

Jah = creation to me. there is no physical affiliation.

Bahamafattygirl · 12-08-2005, 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by Sencia

Jah = creation to me. there is no physical affiliation.

You see it right...

Blu · 12-08-2005, 12:10 PM

God is a he because he made Adam in his own image and from Adam he took a bone (rib) and made Eve the woman.

Light360 · 12-08-2005, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by soca_souljah

he is neither ! Jesus was a man ..... not God

Being dat he created all of generations of mankind (human) which can be witness jus as in a womans pregnancy(human creation) But then again he is mention in the bible as "THE FATHER" who knows

I jus think God is a divine spirit

Okay....you just confused the hell out of me.

PATSHORLA-SI · 12-08-2005, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by Queen of Sanity

Do you consider God to be He or She? Or Both?

If God is everything then God can NOT be a he alone, to be everything would include duality, he and she.

Think outside the box for me on this.

i believe God is a he the way it described in the Bible

soca_souljah · 12-08-2005, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by Queen of Sanity

Okay....you just confused the hell out of me.

GOD IS a Divine entity ! plan an simple ! Not to be identified with any sex

saveoursoca · 12-08-2005, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by Queen of Sanity

Do you consider God to be He or She? Or Both?

If God is everything then God can NOT be a he alone, to be everything would include duality, he and she.

Think outside the box for me on this.

Does this also mean he is an elphant or a dog?

Ananci_7 · 12-08-2005, 10:49 PM

Oh lord, look the jep nest dis oman gone and pelt now. You just HAD to go dey eh gyul?

The main problem here is that there are virtually no gender-neutral terms to describe the divine in Indo-European languages. And frankly, I don’t expect to see any addressing of that issue going to take place anytime soon in the Christian and Muslim world. The Almighty can be and is female and male; virtually all of the non-Western faiths are comfortable with that and express that and have terms that are gender-neutral. But that has been written out of Judaism, Xianity and Islam since their very beginnings.

My Queen, remember that our understanding of what the divine is and isn’t has been influenced by schooling and churching in a very strong Eurocentric context with its extreme patriarchal outlook. If one studies the history of Europe going back to its primordial beginnings one would see that the idea of the female occupying their divine world was unthinkable. You can credit this to Eurasia’s extreme patriarchy, its marginalisation and contempt of women and the feminine principles based on a peculiar fear of them. Also, being principally nomadic tribes and with the premium being placed on hunting, foraging and warfare, women simply did not figure importantly in secular life and they most certainly would not be placed in prominence in religious life.

All the earliest concepts of the divine were actually female. Period. The worship of the Great Mother or the Divine Feminine existed for many thousands of years and was only displaced after 1700 BCE when the Indo-Aryans/Europeans swept across Europe, Asia and Africa in successive waves right up to the expansionist exercises of the 15th and 16th centuries.

Ironically, “god” is still understood as female even in the male-dominant religions of the West, even in Xianity. The profound influence of the Great Mother could never fully be suppressed by the Church so it simply took it over. In the Catholic Church and in the New Testament the Great Mother Goddess and the female element of the godhead is still present. Mary, mother of Jesus and Mary Magdalene are both variations of Mari, a title of Isis of Egypt. Further the Holy Spirit of the Holy Trinity constitutes the female element of the godhead; both the Greek and Hebrew terms for the Holy Spirit, which was identified with divine wisdom, are female – Hebrew “ruach”, Greek “Sophia”. And in one of the gospels left out of the bible – Hermas – we read:

31 Moreover, brethren, it was revealed to me, as I was sleeping, by a very goodly young man, saying unto me, What thinkest thou of that old woman though receivest the book; who is she? I answered a Sybil

32 Thou art mistaken, said he, she is not. I replied, Who is she then sir? He answered unto me It is the church of God

33 And I said unto him, why then does she appear old? She is therefore, said he, an old woman, because she was the first of all the creation, and the world was made for her
1st Gospel of Hermas, which is called His Visions

saveoursoca · 12-08-2005, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by Ananci_7

Oh lord, look the jep nest dis oman gone and pelt now. You just HAD to go dey eh gyul?

The main problem here is that there are virtually no gender-neutral terms to describe the divine in Indo-European languages. And frankly, I don’t expect to see any addressing of that issue going to take place anytime soon in the Christian and Muslim world. The Almighty can be and is female and male; virtually all of the non-Western faiths are comfortable with that and express that and have terms that are gender-neutral. But that has been written out of Judaism, Xianity and Islam since their very beginnings.

My Queen, remember that our understanding of what the divine is and isn’t has been influenced by schooling and churching in a very strong Eurocentric context with its extreme patriarchal outlook. If one studies the history of Europe going back to its primordial beginnings one would see that the idea of the female occupying their divine world was unthinkable. You can credit this to Eurasia’s extreme patriarchy, its marginalisation and contempt of women and the feminine principles based on a peculiar fear of them. Also, being principally nomadic tribes and with the premium being placed on hunting, foraging and warfare, women simply did not figure importantly in secular life and they most certainly would not be placed in prominence in religious life.

All the earliest concepts of the divine were actually female. Period. The worship of the Great Mother or the Divine Feminine existed for many thousands of years and was only displaced after 1700 BCE when the Indo-Aryans/Europeans swept across Europe, Asia and Africa in successive waves right up to the expansionist exercises of the 15th and 16th centuries.

Ironically, “god” is still understood as female even in the male-dominant religions of the West, even in Xianity. The profound influence of the Great Mother could never fully be suppressed by the Church so it simply took it over. In the Catholic Church and in the New Testament the Great Mother Goddess and the female element of the godhead is still present. Mary, mother of Jesus and Mary Magdalene are both variations of Mari, a title of Isis of Egypt. Further the Holy Spirit of the Holy Trinity constitutes the female element of the godhead; both the Greek and Hebrew terms for the Holy Spirit, which was identified with divine wisdom, are female – Hebrew “ruach”, Greek “Sophia”. And in one of the gospels left out of the bible – Hermas – we read:

31 Moreover, brethren, it was revealed to me, as I was sleeping, by a very goodly young man, saying unto me, What thinkest thou of that old woman though receivest the book; who is she? I answered a Sybil

32 Thou art mistaken, said he, she is not. I replied, Who is she then sir? He answered unto me It is the church of God

33 And I said unto him, why then does she appear old? She is therefore, said he, an old woman, because she was the first of all the creation, and the world was made for her

1st Gospel of Hermas, which is called His Visions

u are implying that all the Gods of theses writings are the same when that is the farthest from the truth.
Different gods different writings and beliefs.

Bake n Shark · 12-09-2005, 01:08 AM

Originally Posted by Queen of Sanity

Do you consider God to be He or She? Or Both?

If God is everything then God can NOT be a he alone, to be everything would include duality, he and she.

Think outside the box for me on this.

That's quite an assumption to make...that God IS everything. Certainly he CAN be everything and he IS everywhere, but that's about it. That said, he certainly can be exclusively male..given his Omnipotence. However I believe gender concepts are human concepts and that attribution of gender to the Almighty is just a natural projection of our desire to identify with our Creator. Doesn't mean that any of us actually have the answer though....

Bluestar...with regards to God creating MAN in his own image...was that referring to the creation of Man in the person of Adam...or was it in reference to the creation of Man as a 'race' of beings? Thus updated to remove the gender bias...did the statement mean that God created HUman beings in his image?

And exactly what image is that...are we a physical image of God? How can that be..if one believes as I do that God isn't bound by flesh and the limitations placed therein? Are we made in his spiritual image? More than likely, even so... the image is but a hollow facade, a reflection of the object, not a clone thereof. As such, our physical nature (as varied from race to race as that itself is) is but one facet of the true nature of God. Adam only resembled God...he was not a clone of God.

saveoursoca · 12-09-2005, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by Bake n Shark

That's quite an assumption to make...that God IS everything. Certainly he CAN be everything and he IS everywhere, but that's about it. That said, he certainly can be exclusively male..given his Omnipotence. However I believe gender concepts are human concepts and that attribution of gender to the Almighty is just a natural projection of our desire to identify with our Creator. Doesn't mean that any of us actually have the answer though....

Bluestar...with regards to God creating MAN in his own image...was that referring to the creation of Man in the person of Adam...or was it in reference to the creation of Man as a 'race' of beings? Thus updated to remove the gender bias...did the statement mean that God created HUman beings in his image?

And exactly what image is that...are we a physical image of God? How can that be..if one believes as I do that God isn't bound by flesh and the limitations placed therein? Are we made in his spiritual image? More than likely, even so... the image is but a hollow facade, a reflection of the object, not a clone thereof. As such, our physical nature (as varied from race to race as that itself is) is but one facet of the true nature of God. Adam only resembled God...he was not a clone of God.

I aint know but i thik it was a physical image
When we read Daniel and he describes the ancient of days He is giving a physical description. what u think?

Light360 · 12-09-2005, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Ananci_7

Oh lord, look the jep nest dis oman gone and pelt now. You just HAD to go dey eh gyul?
Yeah I felt a need to. Woman is boss ya know...

The main problem here is that there are virtually no gender-neutral terms to describe the divine in Indo-European languages. And frankly, I don’t expect to see any addressing of that issue going to take place anytime soon in the Christian and Muslim world. The Almighty can be and is female and male; virtually all of the non-Western faiths are comfortable with that and express that and have terms that are gender-neutral. But that has been written out of Judaism, Xianity and Islam since their very beginnings.

My Queen, remember that our understanding of what the divine is and isn’t has been influenced by schooling and churching in a very strong Eurocentric context with its extreme patriarchal outlook. If one studies the history of Europe going back to its primordial beginnings one would see that the idea of the female occupying their divine world was unthinkable. You can credit this to Eurasia’s extreme patriarchy, its marginalisation and contempt of women and the feminine principles based on a peculiar fear of them. Also, being principally nomadic tribes and with the premium being placed on hunting, foraging and warfare, women simply did not figure importantly in secular life and they most certainly would not be placed in prominence in religious life.

All the earliest concepts of the divine were actually female. Period. The worship of the Great Mother or the Divine Feminine existed for many thousands of years and was only displaced after 1700 BCE when the Indo-Aryans/Europeans swept across Europe, Asia and Africa in successive waves right up to the expansionist exercises of the 15th and 16th centuries.

Ironically, “god” is still understood as female even in the male-dominant religions of the West, even in Xianity. The profound influence of the Great Mother could never fully be suppressed by the Church so it simply took it over. In the Catholic Church and in the New Testament the Great Mother Goddess and the female element of the godhead is still present. Mary, mother of Jesus and Mary Magdalene are both variations of Mari, a title of Isis of Egypt. Further the Holy Spirit of the Holy Trinity constitutes the female element of the godhead; both the Greek and Hebrew terms for the Holy Spirit, which was identified with divine wisdom, are female – Hebrew “ruach”, Greek “Sophia”. And in one of the gospels left out of the bible – Hermas – we read:

31 Moreover, brethren, it was revealed to me, as I was sleeping, by a very goodly young man, saying unto me, What thinkest thou of that old woman though receivest the book; who is she? I answered a Sybil

32 Thou art mistaken, said he, she is not. I replied, Who is she then sir? He answered unto me It is the church of God

33 And I said unto him, why then does she appear old? She is therefore, said he, an old woman, because she was the first of all the creation, and the world was made for her
1st Gospel of Hermas, which is called His Visions

Was wondering where you were...and thanks for thinking outside the box.

Light360 · 12-09-2005, 10:47 AM

Goddess, Maát

Maát is ethical principles collectively embracing the values of truth, justice, harmony, balance, cosmological order, reciprocity and propriety.

Personified as a goddess, Maát is depicted as a woman wearing an ostrich feather on her head, a symbol of the principles she represents. Controlling the movement of the stars and the seasonal flooding of the Nile River, Maát also had codes of tradition and customs. For all Egyptians to live in a happy, prosperous and peaceful environment, they had to live within the order established by Maát. The pharaoh, as absolute ruler, was the individual most responsible to manifest in life, through all his actions, the entire concept of Maát. Deviation from the tenets of Maát could prove disastrous for the pharaoh.

Maát was central to funerary practices in which if the deceased had been found to not have followed the concept of Maát during his life (if he had lied or cheated or killed or done anything against Maát) his heart was devoured by a demon (she was called Ammut -- Devouress of the Dead) and he died the final death. If the heart weighed the same as Maát, the deceased was allowed to go on to the afterlife. The heart of a person was considered the center of intellect and memory.This symbolic weighing of the heart against the feather of truth (Maát) was performed to established the righteousness of the deceased. The scale of Maát was balanced after the recitation of the 42 Declarations of Innocence or Admonitions of Maát from the tomb of a Nubian.

This is to said before the Forty-two gods on reaching the Hall of the Two Truths so as to purge (name) of any sins committed and to see the face of every god:

The Judgment of the Dead
The Declaration of Innocence

Hail to you, great God, Lord of the Two Truths!
I have come to you, my Lord,
I was brought to see your beauty.
I know you, I know the names of the forty-two gods,
Who are with you in the Hall of the Two Truths,
Who live by warding off evildoers,
Who drink of their blood,
On that day of judging characters before Wennofer.
Lo, your name is "He-of-Two-Daughters,"
(And) "He-of-Maat's-Two-Eyes."
Lo, I come before you,
Bringing Maat to you,
Having repelled evil for you.
1. I have not committed sin.
2. I have not committed robbery with violence.
3. I have not stolen.
4. I have not slain men and women.
5. I have not stolen grain.
6. I have not purloined offerings.
7. I have not stolen the property of God.
8. I have not uttered lies.
9. I have not carried away food.
10. I have not uttered curses.
11. I have not committed adultery, I have not lain with men.
12. I have made none to weep.
13. I have not eaten the heart.
14. I have not attacked any man.
15. I am not a man of deceit.
16. I have not stolen cultivated land.
17. I have not been an eavesdropper.
18. I have not slandered [no man].
19. I have not been angry without just cause.
20. I have not debauched the wife of any man.
21. I have not debauched the wife of [any] man.
22. I have not polluted myself.
23. I have terrorized none.
24. I have not transgressed [the law].
25. I have not been wroth.
26. I have not shut my ears to the words of truth.
27. I have not blasphemed.
28. I am not a man of violence.
29. I have not been a stirrer up of strife.
30. I have not acted with undue haste.
31. I have not pried into matters.
32. I have not multiplied my words in speaking.
33. I have wronged none, I have done no evil.
34. I have not worked witchcraft against the king.
35. I have never stopped [the flow of] water.
36. I have never raised my voice.
37. I have not cursed God.
38. I have not acted with arrogance.
39. I have not stolen the bread of the gods.
40. I have not carried away the khenfu cakes from the Spirits of the dead.
41. I have not snatched away the bread of the child, nor treated with contempt the god of my city.
42. I have not slain the cattle belonging to the god.

12-08-2005, 12:47 AM	#1 (permalink)
Light360 The Key Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Heaven and Hell Posts: 1,466 Credits: 1,042	He or She? Do you consider God to be He or She? Or Both? If God is everything then God can NOT be a he alone, to be everything would include duality, he and she. Think outside the box for me on this.

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12-08-2005, 02:12 AM	#3 (permalink)
Sencia Baby Luv Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zion Posts: 10,924 Credits: 1,234	Jah = creation to me. there is no physical affiliation.

12-08-2005, 12:10 PM	#5 (permalink)
Blu Doux Comme Sucre Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: - Posts: 4,140 Credits: 4,811	God is a he because he made Adam in his own image and from Adam he took a bone (rib) and made Eve the woman.

12-08-2005, 10:49 PM	#10 (permalink)
Ananci_7 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: San Fernando Trinidad & Tobago Posts: 1,220 Credits: 5,077	Oh lord, look the jep nest dis oman gone and pelt now. You just HAD to go dey eh gyul? The main problem here is that there are virtually no gender-neutral terms to describe the divine in Indo-European languages. And frankly, I don’t expect to see any addressing of that issue going to take place anytime soon in the Christian and Muslim world. The Almighty can be and is female and male; virtually all of the non-Western faiths are comfortable with that and express that and have terms that are gender-neutral. But that has been written out of Judaism, Xianity and Islam since their very beginnings. My Queen, remember that our understanding of what the divine is and isn’t has been influenced by schooling and churching in a very strong Eurocentric context with its extreme patriarchal outlook. If one studies the history of Europe going back to its primordial beginnings one would see that the idea of the female occupying their divine world was unthinkable. You can credit this to Eurasia’s extreme patriarchy, its marginalisation and contempt of women and the feminine principles based on a peculiar fear of them. Also, being principally nomadic tribes and with the premium being placed on hunting, foraging and warfare, women simply did not figure importantly in secular life and they most certainly would not be placed in prominence in religious life. All the earliest concepts of the divine were actually female. Period. The worship of the Great Mother or the Divine Feminine existed for many thousands of years and was only displaced after 1700 BCE when the Indo-Aryans/Europeans swept across Europe, Asia and Africa in successive waves right up to the expansionist exercises of the 15th and 16th centuries. Ironically, “god” is still understood as female even in the male-dominant religions of the West, even in Xianity. The profound influence of the Great Mother could never fully be suppressed by the Church so it simply took it over. In the Catholic Church and in the New Testament the Great Mother Goddess and the female element of the godhead is still present. Mary, mother of Jesus and Mary Magdalene are both variations of Mari, a title of Isis of Egypt. Further the Holy Spirit of the Holy Trinity constitutes the female element of the godhead; both the Greek and Hebrew terms for the Holy Spirit, which was identified with divine wisdom, are female – Hebrew “ruach”, Greek “Sophia”. And in one of the gospels left out of the bible – Hermas – we read: 31 Moreover, brethren, it was revealed to me, as I was sleeping, by a very goodly young man, saying unto me, What thinkest thou of that old woman though receivest the book; who is she? I answered a Sybil 32 Thou art mistaken, said he, she is not. I replied, Who is she then sir? He answered unto me It is the church of God 33 And I said unto him, why then does she appear old? She is therefore, said he, an old woman, because she was the first of all the creation, and the world was made for her 1st Gospel of Hermas, which is called His Visions

12-09-2005, 10:47 AM	#15 (permalink)
Light360 The Key Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Heaven and Hell Posts: 1,466 Credits: 1,042	Goddess, Maát Maát is ethical principles collectively embracing the values of truth, justice, harmony, balance, cosmological order, reciprocity and propriety. Personified as a goddess, Maát is depicted as a woman wearing an ostrich feather on her head, a symbol of the principles she represents. Controlling the movement of the stars and the seasonal flooding of the Nile River, Maát also had codes of tradition and customs. For all Egyptians to live in a happy, prosperous and peaceful environment, they had to live within the order established by Maát. The pharaoh, as absolute ruler, was the individual most responsible to manifest in life, through all his actions, the entire concept of Maát. Deviation from the tenets of Maát could prove disastrous for the pharaoh. Maát was central to funerary practices in which if the deceased had been found to not have followed the concept of Maát during his life (if he had lied or cheated or killed or done anything against Maát) his heart was devoured by a demon (she was called Ammut -- Devouress of the Dead) and he died the final death. If the heart weighed the same as Maát, the deceased was allowed to go on to the afterlife. The heart of a person was considered the center of intellect and memory.This symbolic weighing of the heart against the feather of truth (Maát) was performed to established the righteousness of the deceased. The scale of Maát was balanced after the recitation of the 42 Declarations of Innocence or Admonitions of Maát from the tomb of a Nubian. This is to said before the Forty-two gods on reaching the Hall of the Two Truths so as to purge (name) of any sins committed and to see the face of every god: The Judgment of the Dead The Declaration of Innocence Hail to you, great God, Lord of the Two Truths! I have come to you, my Lord, I was brought to see your beauty. I know you, I know the names of the forty-two gods, Who are with you in the Hall of the Two Truths, Who live by warding off evildoers, Who drink of their blood, On that day of judging characters before Wennofer. Lo, your name is "He-of-Two-Daughters," (And) "He-of-Maat's-Two-Eyes." Lo, I come before you, Bringing Maat to you, Having repelled evil for you. 1. I have not committed sin. 2. I have not committed robbery with violence. 3. I have not stolen. 4. I have not slain men and women. 5. I have not stolen grain. 6. I have not purloined offerings. 7. I have not stolen the property of God. 8. I have not uttered lies. 9. I have not carried away food. 10. I have not uttered curses. 11. I have not committed adultery, I have not lain with men. 12. I have made none to weep. 13. I have not eaten the heart. 14. I have not attacked any man. 15. I am not a man of deceit. 16. I have not stolen cultivated land. 17. I have not been an eavesdropper. 18. I have not slandered [no man]. 19. I have not been angry without just cause. 20. I have not debauched the wife of any man. 21. I have not debauched the wife of [any] man. 22. I have not polluted myself. 23. I have terrorized none. 24. I have not transgressed [the law]. 25. I have not been wroth. 26. I have not shut my ears to the words of truth. 27. I have not blasphemed. 28. I am not a man of violence. 29. I have not been a stirrer up of strife. 30. I have not acted with undue haste. 31. I have not pried into matters. 32. I have not multiplied my words in speaking. 33. I have wronged none, I have done no evil. 34. I have not worked witchcraft against the king. 35. I have never stopped [the flow of] water. 36. I have never raised my voice. 37. I have not cursed God. 38. I have not acted with arrogance. 39. I have not stolen the bread of the gods. 40. I have not carried away the khenfu cakes from the Spirits of the dead. 41. I have not snatched away the bread of the child, nor treated with contempt the god of my city. 42. I have not slain the cattle belonging to the god.

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