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Old 12-03-2005, 12:01 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Does religion unify or seperate us?

In logics we learned that if a=b, and b=c, then a=c as well. Keep that in mind.

Religion is defined as a commitment or devotion to a faith, observance or supernatural being. It is assumed that people belong to religions for faith, tradition and because their way is considered the "right" way. But is that really why people belong to religious groups? Are Christians any better than Muslims? Better yet, do Christians follow Christ because his teachings are better than that of Alla, Buddha, King Salassie I, or Zeus even? I don't think so....I will argue that religion has everything to do with these 3 factors: social class, ethnicity, and region. For the purpose of making a point, I will generalize a bit...

If one is born in Asia for example, he'd more than likely follow Buddha or Confuscius; If you're a lower class-lower middle class black living in the South, you'd probably be of a protestant sect, like Baptist or Methodist, etc. But, if you're upperclass, living in America and Christian (take most of the Presidents of the United States), you'd be an Episcopalian; Now there are MANY exceptions (Etheopian Jews), but the point is that religion then, is based on the conditions in which one is born: economic class, ethnicity and region.

Too many times do I see so called "religious" wars and things like that. People fighting over land (Middle East), power, racial tension (like ethnic clensing), etc., all in the name of religion. Hitler killed the Jews, but I guess it was okay because the Jews supposidly killed Jesus right? (yea ok).....

As I showed with my logic sentence before: if a=b, and b=c, then a=c...I can argue that If religion = The 3 factors (social class, ethnicity and region); and The 3 factors = conflict (chaos, racial tension, land disputes); then religion = conflict? Or does it? Or does it simply divide us?

Disclaimer: I am only planting seeds, This is not the Gospel according to Hotgirl11226...it's just harmless discourse between intelligent people meant to stimulate the mind. I do not mean to offend anyone. I encourage comments, but will disregard ignorance

Last edited by Hotgirl11226; 12-03-2005 at 12:12 AM..
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Old 12-03-2005, 04:22 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I think it can unite people like in communities and what not, but in the grand scheme of things I definitely believe it has divided us. Religion has been behind pretty much every war. I don't have much to elaborate on, as it's late and i'm so burnt out. So that's all i got to say for now. Good question though. I'll be interested in seeing the coming replies.
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Old 12-03-2005, 10:57 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by chrza
I think it can unite people like in communities and what not, but in the grand scheme of things I definitely believe it has divided us. Religion has been behind pretty much every war. I don't have much to elaborate on, as it's late and i'm so burnt out. So that's all i got to say for now. Good question though. I'll be interested in seeing the coming replies.
Thanks. I think we all have these questions in our heads, but it seems taboo to discuss them almost.
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Old 12-03-2005, 02:09 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hotgirl11226
In logics we learned that if a=b, and b=c, then a=c as well. Keep that in mind.

Religion is defined as a commitment or devotion to a faith, observance or supernatural being. It is assumed that people belong to religions for faith, tradition and because their way is considered the "right" way. But is that really why people belong to religious groups? Are Christians any better than Muslims? Better yet, do Christians follow Christ because his teachings are better than that of Alla, Buddha, King Salassie I, or Zeus even? I don't think so....I will argue that religion has everything to do with these 3 factors: social class, ethnicity, and region. For the purpose of making a point, I will generalize a bit...

If one is born in Asia for example, he'd more than likely follow Buddha or Confuscius; If you're a lower class-lower middle class black living in the South, you'd probably be of a protestant sect, like Baptist or Methodist, etc. But, if you're upperclass, living in America and Christian (take most of the Presidents of the United States), you'd be an Episcopalian; Now there are MANY exceptions (Etheopian Jews), but the point is that religion then, is based on the conditions in which one is born: economic class, ethnicity and region.

Too many times do I see so called "religious" wars and things like that. People fighting over land (Middle East), power, racial tension (like ethnic clensing), etc., all in the name of religion. Hitler killed the Jews, but I guess it was okay because the Jews supposidly killed Jesus right? (yea ok).....

As I showed with my logic sentence before: if a=b, and b=c, then a=c...I can argue that If religion = The 3 factors (social class, ethnicity and region); and The 3 factors = conflict (chaos, racial tension, land disputes); then religion = conflict? Or does it? Or does it simply divide us?

Disclaimer: I am only planting seeds, This is not the Gospel according to Hotgirl11226...it's just harmless discourse between intelligent people meant to stimulate the mind. I do not mean to offend anyone. I encourage comments, but will disregard ignorance
Very good arguement!! The one thing that you don't realize (and this is me playing devils advocate to your logical theory) is that there IS no Logic when it comes to what people beleive. I subscribe to some of what you said with regard to region/specific reasoning to a persons choice of religion. However, the rest in my opinion is moot becuase most people won't even be able to see those points becuase of what it is they believe. Now I'm not saying that your point doesn't float becuase it does, however in the if then statment you used, what if people won't acknowlegde "c" because there faith won't allow then to do so???
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Old 12-03-2005, 02:28 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I think it unites us but to a certain degree it breaks us cause you have ppl who feel their religion is superior to everyone elses and that's a problem
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Old 12-03-2005, 05:13 PM   #6 (permalink)
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The problem with RELIGION is that people have attatched a method to the way in which we worship God....that's where the conflict comes in....every person thinks that their way is best...this side-tracks us from the real reason for worship....to acknowledge God as our Creator and Christ as our saviour...(this can be a very looooooooooooooooooooooong debate) to be cont'd
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Old 12-03-2005, 08:54 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hotgirl11226
In logics we learned that if a=b, and b=c, then a=c as well. Keep that in mind.

Religion is defined as a commitment or devotion to a faith, observance or supernatural being. It is assumed that people belong to religions for faith, tradition and because their way is considered the "right" way. But is that really why people belong to religious groups? Are Christians any better than Muslims? Better yet, do Christians follow Christ because his teachings are better than that of Alla, Buddha, King Salassie I, or Zeus even? I don't think so....I will argue that religion has everything to do with these 3 factors: social class, ethnicity, and region. For the purpose of making a point, I will generalize a bit...

If one is born in Asia for example, he'd more than likely follow Buddha or Confuscius; If you're a lower class-lower middle class black living in the South, you'd probably be of a protestant sect, like Baptist or Methodist, etc. But, if you're upperclass, living in America and Christian (take most of the Presidents of the United States), you'd be an Episcopalian; Now there are MANY exceptions (Etheopian Jews), but the point is that religion then, is based on the conditions in which one is born: economic class, ethnicity and region.

Too many times do I see so called "religious" wars and things like that. People fighting over land (Middle East), power, racial tension (like ethnic clensing), etc., all in the name of religion. Hitler killed the Jews, but I guess it was okay because the Jews supposidly killed Jesus right? (yea ok).....

As I showed with my logic sentence before: if a=b, and b=c, then a=c...I can argue that If religion = The 3 factors (social class, ethnicity and region); and The 3 factors = conflict (chaos, racial tension, land disputes); then religion = conflict? Or does it? Or does it simply divide us?

Disclaimer: I am only planting seeds, This is not the Gospel according to Hotgirl11226...it's just harmless discourse between intelligent people meant to stimulate the mind. I do not mean to offend anyone. I encourage comments, but will disregard ignorance


I think religion seperates us becuz we get to caught up on it
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Old 12-03-2005, 11:32 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Trinikiz
I think religion seperates us becuz we get to caught up on it

please explain what you mean by this.
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Old 12-03-2005, 11:44 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kevlocks
Very good arguement!! The one thing that you don't realize (and this is me playing devils advocate to your logical theory) is that there IS no Logic when it comes to what people beleive.

There isn't logic, but blindly flowing something is very (let me choose my words wisely)...dangerous.

I subscribe to some of what you said with regard to region/specific reasoning to a persons choice of religion. However, the rest in my opinion is moot becuase most people won't even be able to see those points becuase of what it is they believe. Now I'm not saying that your point doesn't float becuase it does, however in the if then statment you used, what if people won't acknowlegde "c" because there faith won't allow then to do so???
As to the last part of your statment...their faith not allowing them to see "c". I completely understand...as i mentioned in my response to chrza..."we all have these questions in our heads, but it seems taboo to discuss them almost." I think that religion is the core of some people's lives and so it's hard to break soemthing they hold so dear. But what I have come to do this past year is to separate God or my faith in him/her from my religion. I know that sounds weird, but what I mean is that I am not as committed to organized religion but am no less a devout follower.

It's like people fear being called an atheist? But what is an aethist? Is it someone who believes in nothing...well what do you call someone who believes in a higher power, but jsut doesn't believe in organized religion?
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Old 12-04-2005, 12:11 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hotgirl11226
As to the last part of your statment...their faith not allowing them to see "c". I completely understand...as i mentioned in my response to chrza..."we all have these questions in our heads, but it seems taboo to discuss them almost." I think that religion is the core of some people's lives and so it's hard to break soemthing they hold so dear. But what I have come to do this past year is to separate God or my faith in him/her from my religion. I know that sounds weird, but what I mean is that I am not as committed to organized religion but am no less a devout follower.

It's like people fear being called an atheist? But what is an aethist? Is it someone who believes in nothing...well what do you call someone who believes in a higher power, but jsut doesn't believe in organized religion?
I call that a person who is willing to see the BIG picture. It is my believe that religion should be a person's foundation to there relationship with God. What I see in today's society is that religion is used to define an individuals realtionship with God IN IT'S ENTIRETY, meaning that people use a man made belief to define themselves as well as the creator, which in turn limits and indivuals capacity for spiritual growth and developement.
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Old 12-04-2005, 01:14 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Religious logic= oxymoronic..

Isn't the fundanmental purpose of religion to answer questions we otherwise cannot answer..this is where our faith supposedly steps in. If we look at religion scientifically, logically, and keep on prying and asking questions then most likely we are going to realize that it is just a gimmick to keep us in line.

No one wants to die knowing there is nothing after death. Oh how comforting it is to believe that if I do X Y and Z, when I die I will be taken to this place where everything is beautiful and all the evils of earth has been eradicated. This is a much easier placebo to swallow than believing when you die you are worm chow and that's it....nothingness.

I will keep on saying that religion and patriotism (great senses of identitiies) are the causes of many if not most of the greatest wars in history.
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Old 12-04-2005, 04:46 PM   #12 (permalink)
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It definetly separates us because religion usually comes with an "I'm right you're wrong ideology." If you don't believe in [insert religious figure's name here] you are wrong. And the only reason these people think there religion is the right one is because they believe in it, and why would they believe something that is false. And most of the time when trying to prove their point, they using faith based arguments while expecting the other party to use logic.
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Old 12-04-2005, 08:51 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bimbo
Religious logic= oxymoronic..

Isn't the fundanmental purpose of religion to answer questions we otherwise cannot answer..this is where our faith supposedly steps in. If we look at religion scientifically, logically, and keep on prying and asking questions then most likely we are going to realize that it is just a gimmick to keep us in line.

No one wants to die knowing there is nothing after death. Oh how comforting it is to believe that if I do X Y and Z, when I die I will be taken to this place where everything is beautiful and all the evils of earth has been eradicated. This is a much easier placebo to swallow than believing when you die you are worm chow and that's it....nothingness.

I will keep on saying that religion and patriotism (great senses of identitiies) are the causes of many if not most of the greatest wars in history.
well yea...my point in using the term logic, is applied to the structure of my arguement not religion in and of itself.
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Old 12-04-2005, 08:52 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kevlocks
I call that a person who is willing to see the BIG picture. It is my believe that religion should be a person's foundation to there relationship with God. What I see in today's society is that religion is used to define an individuals realtionship with God IN IT'S ENTIRETY, meaning that people use a man made belief to define themselves as well as the creator, which in turn limits and indivuals capacity for spiritual growth and developement.

well that's a nice spin on it, but unfortunately being an atheist is almost infamous. Well the connotations attatched to it at least.
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Old 12-04-2005, 09:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hotgirl11226
please explain what you mean by this.

becuz people tend to get caught up on my which religion is right and which religion is wrong and forget that we all are trying to reach the same place
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