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Thread: OFFICIAL: NBA 2011-2012 season.....

  1. #46
    Registered User TheEducator's Avatar TheEducator is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Xtremist View Post
    Incorrect. Boston has had just as many "adjustments" as anyone. They lost 5 rotation players from last year and have 4 new ones:

    Lost: Davis, West, Green, Shaq...also Robinson, Perkins
    Gain: Bass, Dooling, Pavlovic (garbage time last year, 3 of 5 starts this year), J. O'Neal (started only 10 games last year; 5 of the 6 this year).

    That's 4 new rotation players since the end of last year, 6 since the last training camp. That's over 50% of the rotation, just as much as anyone. That very much is "many adjustments".

    Clippers:
    Lost: Gordon, Aminu, R. Butler...also B. Davis
    Gain: Billups, Paul, C. Butler

    Mavericks:
    Lost: Chandler, Barea, Peja, Stevenson...also Butler
    Gain: Carter, West, Odom

    The Clips and Mavs actually changed *less* rotation players overall than Boston. But they've all changed significantly. Bench players, especially these guys who get 20+ mins/game, do happen to matter in games ya know.
    Those players won't see any significant playing time with Boston. So thats pretty much irrelevant.

    Clippers and Mavericks had major overhauls though.

  2. #47
    T-MAKAA
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheEducator View Post
    Those players won't see any significant playing time with Boston. So thats pretty much irrelevant.

    Clippers and Mavericks had major overhauls though.
    Which players wont have significant playing time on Boston?

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    Registered User TheEducator's Avatar TheEducator is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-MAKAA View Post
    Which players wont have significant playing time on Boston?
    O'Neal and Pavlovic were already with the Celtics since last season. I have no idea why he would even list them. With Paul Pierce back, Dooling won't see any significant playing time, unless one of the guards go down with an injury. Brandon Bass is the only one that will get around 25 minutes a game.

  4. #49
    passin thru Kobra Klutch's Avatar Kobra Klutch is offline
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    Knicks aint going nowhere unless they get a good ball distributor, and form a better denfensive game all around. Once de defense lapse, Chandler, their "defensive saviour" is always gonna be in foul trouble. When a good basket attacker bypass melo and amare, there's a 50 percent chance chandler is fouling, because the man is just that foul prone. His contract way too high imo.

  5. #50
    Registered User TheEducator's Avatar TheEducator is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kobra Klutch View Post
    Knicks aint going nowhere unless they get a good ball distributor, and form a better denfensive game all around. Once de defense lapse, Chandler, their "defensive saviour" is always gonna be in foul trouble. When a good basket attacker bypass melo and amare, there's a 50 percent chance chandler is fouling, because the man is just that foul prone. His contract way too high imo.
    Thats why they are hoping that Baron Davis will solve those problems on the offensive end.

    They need to get rid of Pringles. He is a terrible coach. Defense should be the first priority. ALWAYS. He clearly doesn't value it.

  6. #51
    IMIX H.N.I.C sankofaa's Avatar sankofaa is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheEducator View Post
    Those players won't see any significant playing time with Boston. So thats pretty much irrelevant.

    Clippers and Mavericks had major overhauls though.
    exactly

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Xtremist View Post
    Incorrect. Boston has had just as many "adjustments" as anyone. They lost 5 rotation players from last year and have 4 new ones:

    Lost: Davis, West, Green, Shaq...also Robinson, Perkins
    Gain: Bass, Dooling, Pavlovic (garbage time last year, 3 of 5 starts this year), J. O'Neal (started only 10 games last year; 5 of the 6 this year).

    That's 4 new rotation players since the end of last year, 6 since the last training camp. That's over 50% of the rotation, just as much as anyone. That very much is "many adjustments".

    Clippers:
    Lost: Gordon, Aminu, R. Butler...also B. Davis
    Gain: Billups, Paul, C. Butler

    Mavericks:
    Lost: Chandler, Barea, Peja, Stevenson...also Butler
    Gain: Carter, West, Odom

    The Clips and Mavs actually changed *less* rotation players overall than Boston. But they've all changed significantly. Bench players, especially these guys who get 20+ mins/game, do happen to matter in games ya know.
    lol Davis and delonte west are the only people you should've mentioned in this arguement for Boston, you can't throw guys in there that were traded before the playoffs last year or didn't get enough clock to impact anything. How can you compare Boston adjusting to not having shaq or green to Dallas adjusting to no tyson chandler and jj??

  7. #52
    Registered User TheEducator's Avatar TheEducator is offline
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    Bynum DOMINATED again tonight. 21 points/ 22 rebounds.

    Kobe had 37/8/6

    Thank God for NBA league pass. Worth every penny.

  8. #53
    T-MAKAA
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheEducator View Post
    Bynum DOMINATED again tonight. 21 points/ 22 rebounds.

    Kobe had 37/8/6

    Thank God for NBA league pass. Worth every penny.
    If Kobe shoot juss a lil bit less, i would be happy.

    Lakers improving tho..

  9. #54
    Registered User TheEducator's Avatar TheEducator is offline
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    His shot selection is a major problem. He was terrible in the first half. At one point he was 5 for 15. Then in the 3rd and 4th quarter he hit a bunch of shots in a row.

  10. #55
    xtremeintl.com Mystic Xtremist's Avatar Mystic Xtremist is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheEducator View Post
    Those players won't see any significant playing time with Boston. So thats pretty much irrelevant.

    Clippers and Mavericks had major overhauls though.
    You guys are totally missing the point. The discussion was about Boston struggling so far this season. Yes, Dooling and Pavlovic will eventually get pushed down in the rotation once Pierce is back healthy. But the fact is they have been playing during the time ppl are saying Boston is struggling.

  11. #56
    xtremeintl.com Mystic Xtremist's Avatar Mystic Xtremist is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by sankofaa View Post
    exactly



    lol Davis and delonte west are the only people you should've mentioned in this arguement for Boston, you can't throw guys in there that were traded before the playoffs last year or didn't get enough clock to impact anything. How can you compare Boston adjusting to not having shaq or green to Dallas adjusting to no tyson chandler and jj??
    Again, you're missing the point. Boston's starting five for most of last year was
    Rondo, Allen, Pierce, Garnett, Shaq/Perkins.

    So far this year it's been
    Rondo, Allen, Pavlovic, Garnett, Jermaine.

    How can changing two starters and the first two guys off the bench WITHOUT A TRAINING CAMP not be significant?

  12. #57
    xtremeintl.com Mystic Xtremist's Avatar Mystic Xtremist is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheEducator View Post
    David Stern screwed the Lakers. The CP3 trade was basically done. Waiting league approval, thats it! Lakers needed to trade LO to save money.
    The NBA aka David Stern is the owner of the HORNETS. He did not "screw" the Lakers. He helped THE HORNETS. The Laker/Rocket trade would have made the Hornets INCREASE salary, and Stern is trying to SELL the Hornets.

    Lemme ask you a question: if you heard that Mark Cuban or any other owner turned down a trade request, you would be complaining that the owner screwed the other team, or would you say the owner was well within his right to do what's best for HIS team?

    The problem with people's thinking in this Stern so-called-veto is that you all don't realize Stern was acting as the Hornets owner. Not commish. You can't sell the Hornets by increasing their debt.

    Stern did not veto the trade as a commissioner. He declined the trade as an owner. As owners do all the damn time.

    The trade they eventually made got them younger players and lowered salary. That was their aim.

  13. #58
    xtremeintl.com Mystic Xtremist's Avatar Mystic Xtremist is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheEducator View Post
    O'Neal and Pavlovic were already with the Celtics since last season. I have no idea why he would even list them. With Paul Pierce back, Dooling won't see any significant playing time, unless one of the guards go down with an injury. Brandon Bass is the only one that will get around 25 minutes a game.
    What's going to happen is irrelevant. We were talking about Boston's struggles out of the gate (0-3 start). Pavlovic got 11 mins a game last year; in their losses, Pavlovic STARTED. O'Neal similarly didn't start but a handful of games last year.

    As for Dooling, he's played nearly 25 mins/game in those losses.

    If your point was that the Celtics will be alright, well that's the self-same point I'm making. I was only pointing out why they were losing. All I said was that the teams that are struggling, like Boston and Dallas, had significant roster differences. I didn't say those same guys will be playing the rest of the year, or that those teams will keep struggling. In Boston's case, they get Pierce back, in Dallas' case, more reps will make them more comfortable with each other.

    You guys just missed my point.

  14. #59
    Registered User TheEducator's Avatar TheEducator is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Xtremist View Post
    The NBA aka David Stern is the owner of the HORNETS. He did not "screw" the Lakers. He helped THE HORNETS. The Laker/Rocket trade would have made the Hornets INCREASE salary, and Stern is trying to SELL the Hornets.

    Lemme ask you a question: if you heard that Mark Cuban or any other owner turned down a trade request, you would be complaining that the owner screwed the other team, or would you say the owner was well within his right to do what's best for HIS team?

    The problem with people's thinking in this Stern so-called-veto is that you all don't realize Stern was acting as the Hornets owner. Not commish. You can't sell the Hornets by increasing their debt.

    Stern did not veto the trade as a commissioner. He declined the trade as an owner. As owners do all the damn time.

    The trade they eventually made got them younger players and lowered salary. That was their aim.
    The League Office gave the Hornets GM Demps full on authority to carryout trades. When the League bought the Hornets, Stern said he would not get involved in the decision making process: hiring/firing of staff, getting involved in players trades etc. Because it was a direct conflict of interest. Demps had full on authority. Every other GM in the league was under that impression. Including Demps himself, because the NBA told him so! Its only after the Owners. Cuban, Jordan, Gilbert etc complained about the Lakers potentially getting Paul and Dwight to form a super team was when Stern stepped in and vetoed it as a "Owner". The owners were pissed because they just had a lockout to prevent super teams from forming. Because the small market teams want to keep their stars.

    Wojo from yahoo Sports wrote several articles on it. He is the best NBA insider. It was much deeper than you are making it seem.

    Here are the article links

    Stern's power trip takes NBA for wild ride - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

    Hornets resubmit Paul-to-Lakers deal to league - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

    Lakers end Paul trade talks, ship Odom to Mavs - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

    Clips wait for NBA to lower Paul demands - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

    NBA trades Chris Paul to the Clippers - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

    Chris Paul trade stained NBA's credibility - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

  15. #60
    xtremeintl.com Mystic Xtremist's Avatar Mystic Xtremist is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheEducator View Post
    The League Office gave the Hornets GM Demps full on authority to carryout trades. When the League bought the Hornets, Stern said he would not get involved in the decision making process: hiring/firing of staff, getting involved in players trades etc. Because it was a direct conflict of interest. Demps had full on authority. Every other GM in the league was under that impression. Including Demps himself, because the NBA told him so! Its only after the Owners. Cuban, Jordan, Gilbert etc complained about the Lakers potentially getting Paul and Dwight to form a super team was when Stern stepped in and vetoed it as a "Owner". The owners were pissed because they just had a lockout to prevent super teams from forming. Because the small market teams want to keep their stars.

    Wojo from yahoo Sports wrote several articles on it. He is the best NBA insider. It was much deeper than you are making it seem.

    Here are the article links

    Stern's power trip takes NBA for wild ride - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

    Hornets resubmit Paul-to-Lakers deal to league - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

    Lakers end Paul trade talks, ship Odom to Mavs - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

    Clips wait for NBA to lower Paul demands - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

    NBA trades Chris Paul to the Clippers - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

    Chris Paul trade stained NBA's credibility - NBA - Yahoo! Sports
    I've seen all the histrionic knee-jerk articles, all the reactions without thinking about the Hornets future. And no point in any of those articles do they talk about what the trade means for the Hornets. That is the scope of the short-sightedness of all these writers. A trade is supposed to benefit BOTH TEAMS. Woj does not grasp this concept.

    You want an article? Try this one on for size:

    Did New Orleans Hornets get enough for Chris Paul? - ESPN

    4. Fact or Fiction: David Stern made the right move.

    D.J. Foster, ClipperBlog: Fact. Call this "The Decision," Round 2. Stern did the right thing for New Orleans in holding out for a better offer, but the execution of it all and public relations management was unbelievably shoddy. Sort of ironic, isn't it?

    Joe Gerrity, Hornets 24/7: That's a fact-bomb if I've ever seen one. I have defended David Stern, and nothing could have validated that stance more than a trade like this coming to fruition so soon after.

    Tom Haberstroh, ESPN.com: Fact. It's a Pyrrhic victory though. Yes, he negotiated a great deal, but at what cost?

    David Thorpe, ESPN.com: Fact, because we have to consider what new ownership will be looking for. And we have to believe that Stern knows what new ownership will want.

    Brian Windhorst, ESPN.com: Fact. It was unpopular and, depending on whom you talk to, maybe in violation of antitrust laws. But the Hornets got a better deal. Owners have to make hard and sometimes unpopular decisions. Stern made one.
    That is 3 ESPN NBA writers, a Hornets and a Clippers analyst who -- after the Clippers trade, in something called hindsight -- each and every one of them said the Hornets got a BETTER deal and that Stern was right for holding out for it.

    All those Woj articles were shemotional responses to something no one took any time to reflect upon before banging away at their keyboards.

    What I am speaking on is actually a lot deeper than you realize. This is America, and the NBA is a business. They do not care about "image" when there is money and a bottom line at stake. If they do not prepare the Hornets and get them sold, they are on the hook for potentially BILLIONS of dollars. The NBA needs the Hornets franchise to find a buyer. That is their ONLY concern.

    It is high time us fans take the rose-coloured blinders off and realize that the NBA is nothing but a business. A bunch of whining owners isn't hurting Stern in the NBA's pocket. But not being able to sell the Hornets most certainly will.

    I strongly urge you to read that article I posted in full.

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