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Old 06-12-2008, 07:29 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bake n Shark View Post
Stop repeating the same bullshit you hear Stern saying. How is this allegation supposed to help him get an easier sentence??
lol....I had to look back and wonder if Stern had signed up on imix. Maybe fiyah's account has been hacked lol.

as for your question, I've seen the following stated a number of places:
ESPN - NBA's pursuit of restitution from Donaghy a blunder - NBA

Donaghy made his allegations after the NBA demanded $1 million in "restitution" from him. What is "restitution," and is the NBA entitled to any?

The NBA's demand for restitution came as part of the process that assists U.S. District Judge Carol Bagley Amon in determining Donaghy's sentence. The NBA's demand includes two forms of restitution. The first is for $30,000 in salary that Donaghy received for games he admittedly manipulated to pay gambling debts. It's the kind of thing that routinely qualifies as restitution. His work was dishonest, and he should not be paid for it. There is little doubt that Donaghy, as part of his effort to reduce his sentence, will repay the $30,000 to the NBA.

But the second part of the NBA's demand is highly dubious. The league wants to be reimbursed for $1 million it spent on an internal investigation of its referees. "It is hard for me to believe that this is the kind of restitution that is typically paid to a victim of a crime," said Michael Monico, a highly regarded former federal prosecutor and defense lawyer who is the president of the American Board of Criminal Lawyers. "The investigation was an investment in their product and not a loss caused by Mr. Donaghy." It is unlikely Amon will require Donaghy to pay for the NBA's internal investigation, and many legal experts wonder why the NBA would even consider making the demand.

Is the FBI investigating Donaghy's allegations? Will others be charged with crimes?

The FBI already has investigated the allegations. Donaghy first met with FBI agents in July 2007. A team of agents has been probing his stories ever since. As the result of their investigations, federal prosecutors have filed what is known as a 5(k) letter. The 5(k) letter means the agents have checked on the stories and have concluded Donaghy was truthful. The 5(k) letter does not apply to the 2002 Western Conference finals Game 6 because the statute of limitations had expired. More than five years went by before Donaghy described that game to any agents. There was no reason to look into that game because no one could be charged with a crime. The 5(k) letter does apply to statements Donaghy made to agents regarding the three games in 2005. The information could result in a reduction of Donaghy's prison sentence when Amon sentences him July 14. He faces a maximum of 33 months in prison under federal guidelines.

Although the FBI has concluded Donaghy was truthful, it does not mean others will be charged with crimes. Agents and prosecutors easily could have concluded that the rigging of the four games was reprehensible but did not qualify as a federal crime. There was no indication of gambling or money laundering or racketeering on the part of the NBA in Donaghy's allegations. If the NBA wants to extend a series to a seventh game, it might be fraud upon the fans, but it is not a federal crime.
I think the basic thought is that Donaghy's lawyer is trying to show that he cooperated fully in the investigation, and moreover, due to the other allegations of fraud that were floating around the league, allegations that had absolutely nothing to do with Donaghy, he is not in any way responsible for that $1million the league spent investigating his own product.

And now that I really think about it, Donaghy is right. What an arrogant idiotic can of worms the NBA cracked open by asking for that $1million. These asses should be taking steps to make sure their product is legit. Guess they rather stick their head in the sand while the entire city of Sacramento and a few million other NBA fans continue to fully believe something is amiss.
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Old 06-12-2008, 07:32 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Fiyah View Post
Because if he can prove that he was just ONE currupt cog in a system of curruption they will go for the bigger heads.

Lemme ask you this... how is putting the Spurs and Cleveland and New Jersey and leaving the Knicks and Celtics out of any meaningful playoff games in the last ten years helping the NBA? If they are fixing games they are doing the worst job possible.
Don't you think it would be a little obvious to allow those crappy teams to enter into a title hunt? People would catch on quickly.
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Old 06-12-2008, 07:34 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Fiyah View Post
Because if he can prove that he was just ONE currupt cog in a system of curruption they will go for the bigger heads.

Lemme ask you this... how is putting the Spurs and Cleveland and New Jersey and leaving the Knicks and Celtics out of any meaningful playoff games in the last ten years helping the NBA? If they are fixing games they are doing the worst job possible.
Lemme start out by saying I don't believe in some overall league-wide conspiracy either.....but what you're suggesting crosses the line to impossible. Even if there was some fraud going on they'd never be able to cook things to the levels of elevating entire seasons and be able to keep it under wraps. Even in the grandest of imaginations, if something's going to happen, it's only going to be a lil tweak here and there.
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Old 06-12-2008, 08:27 PM   #19 (permalink)
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all I'm gonna say is: wow.

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/pdf/.../donaghy03.pdf
http://assets.espn.go.com/media/pdf/.../donaghy01.pdf

found in a link near the bottom of: ESPN - Federal agents asking questions about Bavetta - NBA
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Old 06-13-2008, 05:23 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mystic Xtremist View Post
Lemme start out by saying I don't believe in some overall league-wide conspiracy either.....but what you're suggesting crosses the line to impossible. Even if there was some fraud going on they'd never be able to cook things to the levels of elevating entire seasons and be able to keep it under wraps. Even in the grandest of imaginations, if something's going to happen, it's only going to be a lil tweak here and there.
That was exactly my point. The links you posted above though does point to there being an intergrity issue with individual referees which could explain the poor refereeing in games at times. Makes you think...
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Old 06-13-2008, 05:55 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Fiyah View Post
Because if he can prove that he was just ONE currupt cog in a system of curruption they will go for the bigger heads.

...and this is supposed to help him at sentencing...how? It's not like he made any promises with the prosecution to cooperate for a lighter sentence. Stern just trying to discredit him and many are unintelligently repeating the same nonsense rather than looking at the substance of the allegations.

Lemme ask you this... how is putting the Spurs and Cleveland and New Jersey and leaving the Knicks and Celtics out of any meaningful playoff games in the last ten years helping the NBA? If they are fixing games they are doing the worst job possible.
Now you're asking to explain what incentive their might be for 'fixing' those games? What kinda dotish-ass question is that? What would I know of motives? Besides... who's to say that the moves were to benefit the league?? The allegation is simply that the Conference Final game between the Lakers and Kings was fixed... and that in that game there were two officials who were "company men". He never said outright they cheated to benefit the league.

Could be that the league wanted to ensure that the Lakers made THAT particular finals series... or maybe the ref/s did it to benefit themselves... Donaghy wasn't very specific, now was he?
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Old 06-13-2008, 06:07 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bake n Shark View Post
Now you're asking to explain what incentive their might be for 'fixing' those games? What kinda dotish-ass question is that? What would I know of motives? Besides... who's to say that the moves were to benefit the league?? The allegation is simply that the Conference Final game between the Lakers and Kings was fixed... and that in that game there were two officials who were "company men". He never said outright they cheated to benefit the league.

Could be that the league wanted to ensure that the Lakers made THAT particular finals series... or maybe the ref/s did it to benefit themselves... Donaghy wasn't very specific, now was he?
He said they were "company men". Which "company" was he talking about? The NBA of course. So why would these "NBA" men be working to benefit themselves? The allegation is pretty precise... Donaghy said that the refs were told BY THE NBA to make it seven games. Its there plain as day...

Donaghy, who pleaded guilty in August 2007 to charges of betting on games he officiated, claimed that he was told two officials were "company men" acting in the interest of the league to extend a 2002 playoff series to a seventh game.

Accusations that some refs are biased towards certain teams and players are far more believable than this league-wide conspiracy.
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Old 06-13-2008, 10:18 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Fiyah View Post
He said they were "company men". Which "company" was he talking about? The NBA of course. So why would these "NBA" men be working to benefit themselves? The allegation is pretty precise... Donaghy said that the refs were told BY THE NBA to make it seven games. Its there plain as day...

Donaghy, who pleaded guilty in August 2007 to charges of betting on games he officiated, claimed that he was told two officials were "company men" acting in the interest of the league to extend a 2002 playoff series to a seventh game.

Accusations that some refs are biased towards certain teams and players are far more believable than this league-wide conspiracy.

I already addressed that:

Could be that the league wanted to ensure that the Lakers made THAT particular finals series
It's not that far-fetched to me that the league preferred to see the Lakers with Phil/Kobe and Shaq... each big names in their own right, than to see the team from cow town.

Do I believe absolutely that there was a conspiracy? No. But neither am I ready to rule it out because nutten else I know that game and that series was stolen from the Kings. Why?? I don't know and I don't care to hypothesize as to motive....that the game was unfairly called in favor of the Lakers, in your own words "Is there, plain as day..."
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Old 06-15-2008, 01:24 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bake n Shark View Post
It's not that far-fetched to me that the league preferred to see the Lakers with Phil/Kobe and Shaq... each big names in their own right, than to see the team from cow town.

Do I believe absolutely that there was a conspiracy? No. But neither am I ready to rule it out because nutten else I know that game and that series was stolen from the Kings. Why?? I don't know and I don't care to hypothesize as to motive....that the game was unfairly called in favor of the Lakers, in your own words "Is there, plain as day..."
This really doesn't hold up under the eye of scrutiny. If the league decided prior/during Game 6 that they wanted the Lake show in the Finals, exactly what happened in the two days btw then and Game 7 to make them completely change their mind??

What am I talking about? Well, in that Game 7, the Kings had 30 free throws and missed fourteen of them. Lakers called for a foul with 8 seconds left in regulation to give Bibby the chance to tie up the game. No foul called in the final sequence in regulation when the Lakers were at the rim with 3 chances and 3 offensive rebounds trying to put home the game winner.

If the league was trying to help the Lakers into the finals, they sure were exceedingly nonchalant about it in Game 7. I can entertain the conspiracy theory about wanting to force a game 7 and extend an exciting series. But the Kings would've had an extra 8-10 pts in the 4th if they simply hit their FTs.

ESPN.com- Kings have no one to blame but themselves - NBA - PLAYOFFS2002
ESPN - Real Kings fans know the truth about '02 series loss to Lakers - NBA
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Old 06-15-2008, 02:50 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mystic Xtremist View Post
This really doesn't hold up under the eye of scrutiny. If the league decided prior/during Game 6 that they wanted the Lake show in the Finals, exactly what happened in the two days btw then and Game 7 to make them completely change their mind??

What am I talking about? Well, in that Game 7, the Kings had 30 free throws and missed fourteen of them. Lakers called for a foul with 8 seconds left in regulation to give Bibby the chance to tie up the game. No foul called in the final sequence in regulation when the Lakers were at the rim with 3 chances and 3 offensive rebounds trying to put home the game winner.

If the league was trying to help the Lakers into the finals, they sure were exceedingly nonchalant about it in Game 7. I can entertain the conspiracy theory about wanting to force a game 7 and extend an exciting series. But the Kings would've had an extra 8-10 pts in the 4th if they simply hit their FTs.

ESPN.com- Kings have no one to blame but themselves - NBA - PLAYOFFS2002
ESPN - Real Kings fans know the truth about '02 series loss to Lakers - NBA
Like I said... "it's not that far-fetched" to me. Did I say it absolutely was the case? No I didn't.

At any rate keeping the game close/respectable could have been the directive. Or perhaps realizing that they went overboard in the previous game they decided to appease the masses (who for the first time included many respected print and broadcast journalists widely critical of the officiating)...by calling fouls in favor of the Kings that game.

Was Kobe or Shaq even in danger of fouling out that game? Who on the Lakers got called for fouls? Who on the Kings shot the most FTs? A poor shooter like Chris Webber?

It is seldom as simple as sending a team to the line...
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Old 06-15-2008, 06:00 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bake n Shark View Post
Like I said... "it's not that far-fetched" to me. Did I say it absolutely was the case? No I didn't.
Well I am saying "it is completely far-fetched".

Originally Posted by Bake n Shark View Post
At any rate keeping the game close/respectable could have been the directive. Or perhaps realizing that they went overboard in the previous game they decided to appease the masses (who for the first time included many respected print and broadcast journalists widely critical of the officiating)...by calling fouls in favor of the Kings that game.

Was Kobe or Shaq even in danger of fouling out that game? Who on the Lakers got called for fouls? Who on the Kings shot the most FTs? A poor shooter like Chris Webber?

It is seldom as simple as sending a team to the line...
I think you missed what I was saying. No one watching that game 7 thought anything was amiss or that they were leaning any way left or right. My point was, they didn't do anything -- sending a team to the line, or anything else -- to try to push the Lakers. The game played out on the court by the players (the way it should), but the Kings punted it away. That was the consensus from all those same broadcast and print journalists -- you can't find anyone who doesn't agree the Kings had all the chance in the world to win that game. There's no scarcity of print out there that have ppl complaining about game 6, only to say "well it doesn't much matter cause the Kings threw game 7 away on their own".

Don't flail away hoping there was a game 7 conspiracy. Webber only had 4 FTs, same as Turkoglu -- the latter a career 80% FT shooter who nevertheless missed 3 of the 4. Divac, a decent (70%) shooter, missed 5 of 10, while Shaq made 11 of 15. Shaq!!! Bibby's a good shooter, he missed a pair. Kobe and Fisher had 5 fouls, quite in danger of a foul-out.

My point, what I'm saying is, what fiyah said a while ago: if the league is trying to fix the outcome of series', they are doing the most inconsistent poor job of it you could imagine. If I think about game 7 to say "did the league want the Lakers to win?" the only answer I come up with is "they sat around idly by and let the Kings win it."

I mean, last year: suspend the most important players on the league's most popular team on a call that was questioned by every single person watching the game to help send one of the most unpopular teams to the finals? I'm of course talking about Amare and Diaw vs the Spurs last year.
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Old 06-15-2008, 07:40 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mystic Xtremist View Post
Well I am saying "it is completely far-fetched".


I think you missed what I was saying. No one watching that game 7 thought anything was amiss or that they were leaning any way left or right. My point was, they didn't do anything -- sending a team to the line, or anything else -- to try to push the Lakers. The game played out on the court by the players (the way it should), but the Kings punted it away. That was the consensus from all those same broadcast and print journalists -- you can't find anyone who doesn't agree the Kings had all the chance in the world to win that game. There's no scarcity of print out there that have ppl complaining about game 6, only to say "well it doesn't much matter cause the Kings threw game 7 away on their own".

Don't flail away hoping there was a game 7 conspiracy. Webber only had 4 FTs, same as Turkoglu -- the latter a career 80% FT shooter who nevertheless missed 3 of the 4. Divac, a decent (70%) shooter, missed 5 of 10, while Shaq made 11 of 15. Shaq!!! Bibby's a good shooter, he missed a pair. Kobe and Fisher had 5 fouls, quite in danger of a foul-out.

My point, what I'm saying is, what fiyah said a while ago: if the league is trying to fix the outcome of series', they are doing the most inconsistent poor job of it you could imagine. If I think about game 7 to say "did the league want the Lakers to win?" the only answer I come up with is "they sat around idly by and let the Kings win it."

I mean, last year: suspend the most important players on the league's most popular team on a call that was questioned by every single person watching the game to help send one of the most unpopular teams to the finals? I'm of course talking about Amare and Diaw vs the Spurs last year.

My friend, you miss my point spectacularly...

Do I believe absolutely that there was a conspiracy? No. But neither am I ready to rule it out
Because I'm not versed in the art of mind reading nor do I have much expertise in fixing games, I cannot tell you why the league might want to conspire to fix games nor how they went/go about doing so. All I know is that the officiating has been questionable for some time, and finally it seems we're getting a bit of a backlight to the story.
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Old 06-16-2008, 02:12 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bake n Shark View Post
My friend, you miss my point spectacularly...

Because I'm not versed in the art of mind reading nor do I have much expertise in fixing games, I cannot tell you why the league might want to conspire to fix games nor how they went/go about doing so. All I know is that the officiating has been questionable for some time, and finally it seems we're getting a bit of a backlight to the story.
And on that point we repeatedly agree.

When the topic however shifts to "did the league conspire to push the Lakers past the Kings in the 2002 playoffs" -- the answer is either: (1) no; or (2) they did the worst, more horrible, most haphazard job of doing so....to the point that they could almost charge themselves with the crime of being negligent.
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Old 10-29-2009, 09:11 PM   #29 (permalink)
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damn donaghy....i mean, a lot of stuff was obvious, like saying you believe the 2002 game 6 of the wcf was rigged and that if a star player has 2 fouls in the first half and is involved in a foul w. another player, that you don't call the foul on the star and just give it to a teammate....but man...he's really blowing the cover of the league. Somehow, this book, which seems like it would be a great piece of gossip, isn't going to get published....nba mafia again...

Excerpts From The Book The NBA Doesn't Want You To Read - Tim Donaghy - Deadspin
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