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Thread: Yet another early Ragga Soca track from T&T that proves the Vincies did not start it!

  1. #76
    Registered User Mr_Crafty's Avatar Mr_Crafty is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by socapineman View Post
    Socapro,


    Funny, i asked VP ok...what is the startline, up to now.....nothing, the reason why i am bring up rhe start line is as you pointed out.....re Lord Laro......lol....well you left a lot out....he was born in Trinidad, was married to a Jamaican...well known for 52 yrs until she passed away.........from in the mid 60s he was living in Jamaica.......and loved it there........i guess they had some laws on the books that id you were in the army, no calypso tent. ..... so to my point.....i want to know their definition and start point.. ....because the Jamaicans style of rappin clearly influence every aspect of his music, at work, so hard to pit up a clip......but most of his music is fused with Mento, Ska, Reggae, Dancehall, etc......so again.....i want to know then....ok..waiting for them to give me the start line and the definition...
    Now pineman, i find a preview of the beccket coca dub from 1980/81, i dey pon d man website...sucks to be you soca pro..another myth debunked. This song have the same style aryo claim laro start, but look again all roads pointing to becket. Only ting i dunno how to embed the preview on islandmix. Now I see u as more honest than socahoe so I trust you and anybody else who interested in learning something will click the link

    https://www.becketcyrusmusic.com/music

    scroll down 5 albums down, on the left hand side, to album named Alston Becket Cyrus "The Single Files". Play the preview marked cocoa reggae n tell wah u hearin, daiz na d same style aryo tryna claim??? It even have a reggae/dancehall artist chanting pon it right dey in d preview. Sorry man but i doh buy aryo story, I grow up lissenin to dem chunes here ppl ain foolin me just so. Like i said all you or any body else have to do is listen to the cocoa (reggae) preview on the link above. Is only cause they chunes hard to find in digital form u see some comedy boy could fool deyself. I garn...school is out.

    VP yo move sloppy, yo get a C-
    "Gaza man crazy...dem in jail"

  2. #77
    Repect Our Soca Pioneers Socapro's Avatar Socapro is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Crafty View Post
    Yeah well vincies doin that style long before byron lee



    Becket also had a song from 1980/1981 called cocoa dub ( a remix to cocoa), similar style to love dub 1984, with a jamaican artist chanting on d song. So i still ain't buying u nikkaz start anything fuss, u jus lucky we cyah get a hold of certain chunes n show you...but that pic above is proof. N ah doh k way yo say aryo still teef d ragga soca riddim from vincy, dem calypso chune u post from the 1970's and that 1973 track ain no fkin soca. I still doh buy yo story, once nikkaz could get a hold of certain chunes like the one in the pic above your whole asinine argument will be viewed as a joke.
    Regards your dub version of the 1980 Vincy Road March "Cocoa" I believe it was an instrumental version of this song:-

    Becket - Cocoa (1980 Vincy Road March)

    Written by Alston Becket Curus and Arranged & Conducted by Frankie McIntosh

    Until someone can upload the flipside of "Cocoa" so we can hear it, I will hesitate to view it as a so-called ragga soca track.

    I would like to add that a number soca tracks from T&T artists also came out on disco 12-inch during the late 1970's into the 1980's and featured an instrumental or dub version on the B side. This 12-inch single from Explainer released in 1979 also had an instrumental dub-version on the B side just like that Becket 1980 "Cocoa" single.

    Explainer - We Just Can't Go On This Way (1979)

    Written by Winston Henry and Arranged by Godwin Bowen, Produced by Boaex Records

    And here are some more soca songs from T&T artists from the 1970's that were released as 7-inch and 12-inch singles with dub or instrumental version on the B-side. These singles clearly fused reggae with soca just like "Irie Tempo" by Laro from 1981 and "We Just Can't Go On This Way" by Explainer from 1979 also did.

    Here is the Junior Calypso Monarch of T&T for 1978, this was a massive hit that year.

    Andrew Baptiste - Ital Man (1978)

    Written by George Martin and Arranged By Clive Bradley

    And here is another big hit in 1978 from Lord Funny about the rastafarian craze getting out of hand in T&T.

    Lord Funny - Imitation Rasta (1978)

    Written by Donric Williamson, Arranged By Pelham Goddard
    Accompanied by Charlie's Roots, Distributed By Charlie's Records


    And here is a 1980 hit by Superblue (who was known back then as Blue Boy) singing on the topic of "Kaya". This tune also came out on a 12-inch with an instrumental/dub version. This Blue Boy soca tune was partly inspired by Bob Marley's reggae hit also called "Kaya".

    Blue Boy - Hun Da Lay aka Kaya (1980)

    Written by Austin Lyons, Arranged By Pelham Goddard
    Accompanied by Charlie's Roots, Distributed By Charlie's Records
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by socapineman View Post
    Socapro,


    Funny, i asked VP ok...what is the startline, up to now.....nothing, the reason why i am bring up rhe start line is as you pointed out.....re Lord Laro......lol....well you left a lot out....he was born in Trinidad, was married to a Jamaican...well known for 52 yrs until she passed away.........from in the mid 60s he was living in Jamaica.......and loved it there........i guess they had some laws on the books that id you were in the army, no calypso tent. ..... so to my point.....i want to know their definition and start point.. ....because the Jamaicans style of rappin clearly influence every aspect of his music, at work, so hard to pit up a clip......but most of his music is fused with Mento, Ska, Reggae, Dancehall, etc......so again.....i want to know then....ok..waiting for them to give me the start line and the definition...
    Regards Lord Laro, we can read some of his history at this link: Lord Laro to perform at Voices of Love | The Trinidad Guardian Newspaper

    Laro did perform at Calypso Tents in T&T during the 1960's before returning to Jamaica to live there permanently from 1969.

    If you listen to his hit "Foreign Press" that he composed in 1975 and released in 1976 it fuses the traditional calypso beat with a bit of mento and reggae influence and I believe this same beat became a foundation for reggae dancehall in the 1980's.

    I know you know this song as it was a massive hit in Jamaica in 1976 but let’s take a listen now as a reminder. This same beat can be found in many traditional calypso recordings btw, see Lord Shorty's "Zena" below this Lord Laro tune as an example.

    Lord Laro - Foreign Press (1976)

    Written by Kenneth Lara; Produced by Paul Khouri

    Now check out the same traditional calypso beat in this Shorty song recorded in 1974.

    Lord Shorty - Zena (1974)

    Written by Garfield Blackman; Produced by Shorty Music
    Arranged by Ed Watson; Accompanied by Art De Coteau Orchestra
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    Registered User Mr_Crafty's Avatar Mr_Crafty is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socapro View Post
    Regards Lord Laro, we can read some of his history at this link: Lord Laro to perform at Voices of Love | The Trinidad Guardian Newspaper

    Laro did perform at Calypso Tents in T&T during the 1960's before returning to Jamaica to live there permanently from 1969.

    If you listen to his hit "Foreign Press" that he composed in 1975 and released in 1976 it fuses the traditional calypso beat with a bit of mento and reggae influence and I believe this same beat became a foundation for reggae dancehall in the 1980's.

    I know you know this song as it was a massive hit in Jamaica in 1976 but let’s take a listen now as a reminder. This same beat can be found in many traditional calypso recordings btw, see Lord Shorty's "Zena" below this Lord Laro tune as an example.

    Lord Laro - Foreign Press (1976)

    Written by Kenneth Lara; Produced by Paul Khouri

    Now check out the same traditional calypso beat in this Shorty song recorded in 1974.

    Lord Shorty - Zena (1974)

    Written by Garfield Blackman; Produced by Shorty Music
    Arranged by Ed Watson; Accompanied by Art De Coteau Orchestra
    Pardy the cocoa dub is not an instrumental, stop acting senile.
    https://www.becketcyrusmusic.com/music

    Like I said, nunu, there is a preview of it on the music section of Becket's website, 5 albums down, on the left hand side, by Alston Becket Cyrus "the Singles File". Track #6 ,Cocoa(reggae), with a Jamaican nikka chanting pon it.

    But i know dis is d part when yo pretend yo dotish cah yo ketch in yo fkry.


    N for the record nunu, ragga soca don't need chanting on it to be ragga, is d riddim jackass...d riddim.

    Teaser, Oil Pumpin, Body in Control, Pump me up, Fool Around..dem chune dey is some examples of ragga soca dat dor have no chanting pon dem.
    "Gaza man crazy...dem in jail"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Crafty View Post
    Now pineman, i find a preview of the beccket coca dub from 1980/81, i dey pon d man website...sucks to be you soca pro..another myth debunked. This song have the same style aryo claim laro start, but look again all roads pointing to becket. Only ting i dunno how to embed the preview on islandmix. Now I see u as more honest than socahoe so I trust you and anybody else who interested in learning something will click the link

    https://www.becketcyrusmusic.com/music

    scroll down 5 albums down, on the left hand side, to album named Alston Becket Cyrus "The Single Files". Play the preview marked cocoa reggae n tell wah u hearin, daiz na d same style aryo tryna claim??? It even have a reggae/dancehall artist chanting pon it right dey in d preview. Sorry man but i doh buy aryo story, I grow up lissenin to dem chunes here ppl ain foolin me just so. Like i said all you or any body else have to do is listen to the cocoa (reggae) preview on the link above. Is only cause they chunes hard to find in digital form u see some comedy boy could fool deyself. I garn...school is out.

    VP yo move sloppy, yo get a C-
    I just took a listened to Becket's "Cocoa" Reggae version from 1980 with a dancehall Reggae DJ into.

    How is Becket doing a reggae song with a DJ intro original when Lord Laro and many other T&T calypsonains did loads of reggae songs in a calypso style during the 1970's long before Becket did that Cocoa reggae version in 1980?

    Becket definitely was not the first calypsonian to do a reggae song. Here are some examples that predated (were recorded and released) before that Becket Cocoa reggae version came out in mid 1980 for the Vincy carnival that year.

    Lord Laro - My Dread Mildred (1977)

    Written by Kenneth Lara and Produced by Paul Khouri

    Lord Laro - Yu Have Fe Dred (1978)

    Written by Kenneth Lara and Produced by Paul Khouri

    Lord Laro feat. Trinity - Corn Plum Plum (1979)

    Written by Kenneth Lara and Produced by Paul Khouri
    Click this link for more details: https://www.discogs.com/Lord-Lard-Co...elease/3706827


    Explainer - You've Got To Pay (1978)

    Written by Winston Henry and Arranged by Godwin Bowen,
    Produced by SEMP Production


    Lord Nelson - Bald Head Rasta (1980)

    Written by Robert Nelson; Produced & Arranged by Clive Bradley

    This style of singing calypso style on a reggae beat was sometimes referred to in T&T as Reggae-lypso during the 1970's. I can go back even further and give you Lord Brynner singing calypso style on Ska and Lord Creator singing calypso style on Rock Steady. But Lord Laro was the boss of singing calypso style on reggae and would often fuse some mento in his tunes as well.
    Becket was not the first to sing calypso style on a reggae beat with or without a dancehall DJ on the song and if you Vincies believe that then you'll are seriously delusional to reality.
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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Crafty View Post
    Pardy the cocoa dub is not an instrumental, stop acting senile.
    https://www.becketcyrusmusic.com/music

    Like I said, nunu, there is a preview of it on the music section of Becket's website, 5 albums down, on the left hand side, by Alston Becket Cyrus "the Singles File". Track #6 ,Cocoa(reggae), with a Jamaican nikka chanting pon it.

    But i know dis is d part when yo pretend yo dotish cah yo ketch in yo fkry.


    N for the record nunu, ragga soca don't need chanting on it to be ragga, is d riddim jackass...d riddim.

    Teaser, Oil Pumpin, Body in Control, Pump me up, Fool Around..dem chune dey is some examples of ragga soca dat dor have no chanting pon dem.
    Lord Laro was doing this before Becket. In fact Becket probably got inspired to do that Cocoa reggae track after hearing that style of reggae-lypso from Lord Laro who was renowned for doing that style during the 1970's.

    Lord Laro feat. Trinity - Corn Plum Plum (1979)

    Written by Kenneth Lara and Produced by Paul Khouri;
    Click this link for more details: https://www.discogs.com/Lord-Lard-Co...elease/3706827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Crafty View Post
    Now pineman, i find a preview of the beccket coca dub from 1980/81, i dey pon d man website...sucks to be you soca pro..another myth debunked. This song have the same style aryo claim laro start, but look again all roads pointing to becket. Only ting i dunno how to embed the preview on islandmix. Now I see u as more honest than socahoe so I trust you and anybody else who interested in learning something will click the link

    https://www.becketcyrusmusic.com/music

    scroll down 5 albums down, on the left hand side, to album named Alston Becket Cyrus "The Single Files". Play the preview marked cocoa reggae n tell wah u hearin, daiz na d same style aryo tryna claim??? It even have a reggae/dancehall artist chanting pon it right dey in d preview. Sorry man but i doh buy aryo story, I grow up lissenin to dem chunes here ppl ain foolin me just so. Like i said all you or any body else have to do is listen to the cocoa (reggae) preview on the link above. Is only cause they chunes hard to find in digital form u see some comedy boy could fool deyself. I garn...school is out.

    VP yo move sloppy, yo get a C-
    Hey......please don't be evasive like VP......


    Please, i am trying to learn something here....unlike VP i dont care to state i know it all......


    Socapro.....please hold up for a second......please let him anawer the simple questions......



    Mr Crafty,


    Again.....listen, i am a lover of Soca....music lover in general...i appreciate all music.

    I could care less if you or VP give the yardies credit for this aspect of it ......all i am asking is to help me be informed so i have my facts straight......without going on tangents....


    Since you and VP claim the Jamaicans have nothing to do with Ragga Soca......fair enough, can you please....

    1) when was it defined as such Ragga Soca
    A textbook definition

    2) By who...


    3) and if you can provide the first songs or songs and year.


    No long talk like Vp......thanks.
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  8. #83
    Repect Our Soca Pioneers Socapro's Avatar Socapro is offline
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    I have the answers with the evidence to answer your questions Socapineman but I will hold up as you requested to see what Mr Crafty comes up with. Let's hope he is not as evasive and crafty as VP.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socapro View Post
    Lord Laro was doing this before Becket. In fact Becket probably got inspired to do that Cocoa reggae track after hearing that style of reggae-lypso from Lord Laro who was renowned for doing that style during the 1970's.

    Lord Laro feat. Trinity - Corn Plum Plum (1979)

    Written by Kenneth Lara and Produced by Paul Khouri;
    Click this link for more details: https://www.discogs.com/Lord-Lard-Co...elease/3706827
    Thanks......Big Post here......



    Again, i am only interested in getting the facts and the timeline straight.......cleary, i just listen to that Cocoa......ok, to your point, numerous other Calypsoians did it before.

    I am not trying to minimize St Vincent's role in all of this......i just find it suspect that VP keep throwing out these claims....lol....i never paid attn to these who started it first.....but as of lately....i have to start fact checking him due to a post he had put up.....and in my mind...i was saying....what a playa hater......i didnt make him know.....but he had just min an artist from Jamaica.....and i was saying....oh...i see, it is all about him and St.Vincent......hence i have to keep a watch out now to secure on little bit of history that we played in all of this.


    So thanks.....let's see...what he come up with.
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    Registered User Mr_Crafty's Avatar Mr_Crafty is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by socapineman View Post
    Thanks......Big Post here......



    Again, i am only interested in getting the facts and the timeline straight.......cleary, i just listen to that Cocoa......ok, to your point, numerous other Calypsoians did it before.

    I am not trying to minimize St Vincent's role in all of this......i just find it suspect that VP keep throwing out these claims....lol....i never paid attn to these who started it first.....but as of lately....i have to start fact checking him due to a post he had put up.....and in my mind...i was saying....what a playa hater......i didnt make him know.....but he had just min an artist from Jamaica.....and i was saying....oh...i see, it is all about him and St.Vincent......hence i have to keep a watch out now to secure on little bit of history that we played in all of this.


    So thanks.....let's see...what he come up with.
    Sorry boss but how that plum plum chune come ragga soca now?? daz a reggae riddim, n u sayin i evasive?

    yeah.... u had sumting wid irie tempo n d soca horns but da plum plum chune aint have no soca in it sorry.

    Ps I never say Jamaicans ain't ad nuttin infact i just tell u d cocoa dub chune had a unknown jamaican chanting on it, i even give u props for the yellow man chune wid chanting in it plus even the love dub by becket have a jamaican chanting in it. so careful wid dem ole face accusations dey bossman. N is funny u accusing me of that shit when soca hoe is d one use to say yo yellow man reggae calypso chune is more calypso than soca.. funny how nikkas forget shit. Neways pardy do yo thing, but i dun prove my point.
    "Gaza man crazy...dem in jail"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Crafty View Post
    Sorry boss but how that plum plum chune come ragga soca now?? daz a reggae riddim, n u sayin i evasive?

    yeah.... u had sumting wid irie tempo n d soca horns but da plum plum chune aint have no soca in it sorry.

    Ps I never say Jamaicans ain't ad nuttin infact i just tell u d cocoa dub chune had a unknown jamaican chanting on it, i even give u props for the yellow man chune wid chanting in it plus even the love dub by becket have a jamaican chanting in it. so careful wid dem ole face accusations dey bossman. N is funny u accusing me of that shit when soca hoe is d one use to say yo yellow man reggae calypso chune is more calypso than soca.. funny how nikkas forget shit. Neways pardy do yo thing, but i dun prove my point.
    As I was expecting you are being crafty and evasive and trying to distract from answering any of Socapineman's questions by trying to cast me as a player hater like yourself and VP.

    I never argued anywhere against the Yellow Man track not being a soca. I acknowledge the song to be a fusion of reggae, calypso, soca and mento just as Yellow Man sings in the chorus of the song.

    King Yellowman - Reggae Calypso (1984)

    Written by Winston Foster; Producer – Jimmy Wynter

    Also no one here ever argued that Lord Laro's "Corn Plum Plum" is ragga soca but you did try to argue in one of your previous post above that Becket was the first to do that calypso on a reggae beat style featuring a Dancehall DJ before Lord Laro did so I decided to provide the evidence to dismiss your erroneous statement.
    In fact at first I thought that the flip side of Becket's "Cocoa" was a soca instrumental of the original with a reggae DJ possibly chanting until I listened to the clip you provided and realised it was simply a reggae remake version of Becket's original calypso/soca song.

    While we wait for you to answer Socapineman's questions listed below let's take in another classic from Lord Laro this time fusing his calypso singing style with Reggae Mento and Rubber Dub Rockers.

    Lord Laro - Disco Mento Rockers (1977)

    Written by Kenneth Lara and Produced by Paul Khouri

    I am quoting the questions to you again from Socapineman:
    Since you and VP claim the Jamaicans have nothing to do with Ragga Soca......fair enough, can you please....

    1) when was it defined as such Ragga Soca
    A textbook definition

    2) By who...

    3) and if you can provide the first songs or songs and year.

    No long talk like Vp......thanks.
    Catch me as Soca PhD Every Saturday 2-4pm GMT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Crafty View Post
    Sorry boss but how that plum plum chune come ragga soca now?? daz a reggae riddim, n u sayin i evasive?

    yeah.... u had sumting wid irie tempo n d soca horns but da plum plum chune aint have no soca in it sorry.

    Ps I never say Jamaicans ain't ad nuttin infact i just tell u d cocoa dub chune had a unknown jamaican chanting on it, i even give u props for the yellow man chune wid chanting in it plus even the love dub by becket have a jamaican chanting in it. so careful wid dem ole face accusations dey bossman. N is funny u accusing me of that shit when soca hoe is d one use to say yo yellow man reggae calypso chune is more calypso than soca.. funny how nikkas forget shit. Neways pardy do yo thing, but i dun prove my point.
    Ok, fair enough, not you then VP......hold up....we getting off track again.....let's stay focus and dont make it personal, can you or not define the Ragga Soca era ?


    Simple questions........the reason why, it seems imo that numerous islands such as Trinidad, St. Vincent, Grenada, Barbados, etc.....was fusing Reggae with Calypso and soca... .. so if that is the case, then VP claim is without merit and fair to say then those islands i pointed out had a major role in Ragga Soca. If it is defined by " slow down the beat.. "

    So unless you guys can point to the exact date and song.. .it needs to stop, period.


    Now, taking Socapro's definition.....ok, is t that not documented ?


    Meaning......yeah, a lot did it before, but someone came with a legitimate definition and said this period......was Ragga Soca.....etc....


    If someone is going to claim something......then prove the proof....it is that simple.
    Socapro likes this.

  13. #88
    JA Soca Ambassador socapineman is offline
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    If you can't, then just let VP try again......it seems that you jumped in and didnt realize that prior to that tune by Becket...Lord Laro from Trinidad and others were doing that type of fusing before.....which Socapro provided you some tracks......


    Maybe the answer then is call it something else......because feom the def, it seems Ragga Soca is inline with the period Socapro stated....just my thoughts.

  14. #89
    Registered Member VINCYPOWA's Avatar VINCYPOWA is offline
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    We STILL GOING OVER the SAME EXAMPLES that I have ALREADY REFUTED??

    What is the TOPIC here, RAGGA SOCA or something else??

    When I get HOME tonight, I will give you the TIMELINE and the CHRONOLOGY of the ARTIST, STRAIGHT from the 1970's to the ENDING of 1990's, who GAVE BIRTH to and. NURTURED this GENRE.

    ONE ARTIST.

    He and his COLLABORATOR are the CREATORS of this GENRE KNOWN as RAGGA SOCA.

    I see all kind of videos being shown and all I did was LOL n SMH.

    SEE U GUYS LATER today.

  15. #90
    Registered Member VINCYPOWA's Avatar VINCYPOWA is offline
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    Socapine, my FRIEND, U R TRULY SLOW and that is why you are EASILY HOODWINK by SOCAPRO.

    But I am here to RESCUE U from his CLUTCHES, because I PAY ATTENTION to DETAILS, which U obviously DO NOT.

    LATA.

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