IslandMix - Soca, Reggae, Zouk and Caribbean Entertainment

I remember VP brought this up a while ago but I was looking at some of the older soca and kaiso on toronto-lime. Now, being that these songs were before my time, I may not know enough about the original soca music BUT, I cannot understand why these two Shadow songs are considered kaiso and not soca when they sound more like the soca I know.

Shadow songs

Toronto-Lime.com - Soca Track

Toronto-Lime.com - Soca Track

compare to Kitch's Sugar Bum Bum

Toronto-Lime.com - Soca Track

or Sparrow's Doh Back Back .....sidenote, I love dis friggin song.

Toronto-Lime.com - Soca Track

When I GET home I will LISTEN to the TRACKS in QUESTION and I will then GIVE U my FEEDBACK.

But if one of the TRACKS from TORONTOLIME is "BASSMAN,' that CONTROVERSY has been going on for a VERY LONG.

In fact, many PEOPLE, including SHADOW, says that what they're ATTRIBUTING SOCA as being, the song BASSMAN ACCOMPLISHED this moreso than any other song.

He basically said that SOCA is UPTEMPO CALYPSO, which fits the song BASSMAN perfectly.

Believe me, it is all POLITICS. You know they were not going to say a TOBAGO man created SOCA.

MUDDERWUK!!!

its obeah man and bassman de two shadow songs he have up and i have tuh agree dat de two sound like early soca tuh me especially obeah man which was ah year early dan bassman...(obeah man 1973)

Yes, U R CORRECT.

For Kaiso, you have to pay close attention to the lyrics

Calypso is commentary, where you have social and political

Political commentary I think is out of control today, but when it was good to listen to, I loved Gypsy's "Sinking Ship" and Obstinate's "I will always come back to you", not only did they have good music to listen to, but you could not escape the lyrics.

For social commentary I am Short Shirt fan "When" is for today as it was for yesterday when he recorded it, the lyrics are great. Alot of people may say "Lamentation" is a better song.

Kaiso - pure story telling, Cro Cro's - (I can't think of the name of the song, but he talks about going to NY and everybody wants him to bring this and carry that) funny but true song.

Extempo - lost art form in the Caribbean, on the spot songs.

Soca - Uptempo calypso and pure dance music - until recently where some aritst are going back to the basics of calypso and reinventing it with some meaning. But they are few and far in between.

Ok, I heard all the SONGS. And like I have ALREADY STATED, NUMEROUS people have ASKED the VERY QUESTION you POSED, especially as it relates to "BASSMAN."

But like I said, I am sure that POLITICS have something to do with it.

If you LISTEN to "OBEAH MAN" clearly that sounds like SOCA.

If anyone can FIND any CALYPSO music with that TEMPO or FEEL, let me HEAR it.

I am WILLING to BET that there R NONE. Yet still, they tell you that is SHORTY who created SOCA.

Like some of the TRINI ARTISTS and ARRANGERS of the DAY stated....how the HELL could SHORTY created SOCA when he could not ARRANGED music

PS: The only real DIFFERENCE between SHADOW's songs and the other two have more to do with TEMPO than anything.

Oh yeah, U said U LOVE the SPARROW TRACK....well, the GREAT FRANKIE MCINTOSH of St. Vincent and the Grenadines is the ARRANGER.

One of the things thay you should pay attention to are the instruments in the songs, its rear that you get a calypso artist to perform without a horn section in a band. The good calypso singers will not perform without a horn section, Kaiso is uptempo calypso but soca has an urgency in the rhythm that you will not find in either calypso or kaiso. It is only recently that you find some soca artist putting horns into their songs, that totally disappered.

That's what I'm saying. There is nothing about that song that sounds like a calypso to me.

Guys, the reason why it does not sound like calypso is because it is straight soca. "Obeah Man", a big tune back home when it came out - was actually released in 1982 NOT 1973 (arranged by Art De Couteau - arguably the top soca arranger at that time).

When I am trying to compare soca to Shadow's and Lord Shorty's music back in the day, I look at the early soca of, say 1977 - 1981 and see the similarites between the sounds discussed.
For instance compare "Soca Baptist" by Superblue (1980):
Toronto-Lime.com - Soca Track
Or Sugar Bum Bum by Kitchy (1977) - Ed Watson arrangement:
Toronto-Lime.com - Soca Track
to
Sweet Music by Lord Shorty (1975/1976) - Ed Watson arrangement:
Toronto-Lime.com - Soca Track

This is the song I believe that really started the genre, although Shorty was pushing the Soca theme for about 2 years or so by then.

Respect.