IslandMix - Soca, Reggae, Zouk and Caribbean Entertainment

This is from February 2005 from the Nassau Guradian and may have been posted before but I thought with all the new songs coming out now it would be interesting to read. Had to break it into two parts to post. I just put some interesting points in bold.

REASONING WITH HAYDN ROBIN: A SOUL HISTORY OF SOCA

The Nassau Guardian Online
Date February 19, 2005
Section(s) Lifestyles


After a dream performance by David Rudder and his band at the Hilton on Carnival Monday, the Weekender talked to Haydn Robin, co-founder of Charlie's Roots and trumpeteer with the Wayne Bruno band and for David Rudder. Charlie's Roots is a legendary Trinidadian band, and the place where David Rudder, legendary calypsonian, got his start. Robin took The Weekender on a fascinating journey through history to explain the actual roots of soca, the definition of soul and his unforgiving assessment of contemporary Trinidadian music.

Discaplypso (Disco + Calypso)?

HR: Soca music. I began playing calypso music in 1974 professionally. Soca music came in probably in about 1977. A lot of people believe that soca music came from some mixture of Indian influence and so on.

W: Right, with Ras Shorty-I.

HR: Yes. I don't believe that. I believe that soca music came from disco music.

W: Really? Disco with what; what's the combination?

HR: There was a beat, the beat of the drum and the high hat. Disco music took over the world and I believe it influenced the music so much, so that if you listen to the soca beat, the disco beat is prominent. It is superimposed in there.

HR: You can play the music from 1970s and you can play the calypso music and you can hear when it came. When the disco was infused. All these electronic sounds and so. They put it in the calypso and with the disco beat it became soca. Now what they calling soca now, there's a kind of confusion. If you hear the music from the 1970s, you would hear what we used to call calypso. They're calling that and what we're doing now, the Machel, the Bunji, the Maximus Dan, they're calling that soca.

Soca is not Soca

W: So this contemporary soca and the 70s calypso? But it's just evolution.

HR: You are not going to hear any real resemblance to calypso.

W: OK, who are the performers in that era in the 70s.

HR: I'm talking about Explainer, Merchant. . .

W: Doesn't Explainer have that remake with Bunji Garlin?

HR: Yeah. And basically it explains itself, it's the rap kind of thing and the Jamaican thing. It's cool you know, but it confuses people. I talk to people all the time but not as a musician.

W: Right, because it colours how people respond to you.

HR: People are very aware of that soca/calypso and what we are calling soca now, but as far as I am concerned it's not soca.

W: Well what would you call it?

HR: I'd call it some sort of dub, rap, rapso, something like that. It's more that than soca.

W: To me the question is where does the line get drawn between soca and this contemporary music that you're saying is not soca. What is the difference that fundamentally pushes it out of that category instead of making it an evolution?

HR: OK, imagine this guy who just broke through with this song - Kevin Lyttle. That sounds like some sort of groovy, R & B something.

W: Yes, there's R & B but there's a kind of Latin kaiso thing in it. It's very hybrid.

HR: Good. To me, it sounds different. I have a difficulty identifying the popular music, Maximus Dan and Bunji and these guys, as soca. Because I know soca to be what Merchant and Explainer were singing.

W: Would you say what Shorty-I was doing was soca?

HR: Well that became the brand. And as far as I'm concerned that came from the disco music.

W: See, but what you're telling me too is all that is happening right now is a repetition of history. The most popular music of the time was disco and that influenced calypso and created this whole genre of music known as soca. And what is happening now is that reggae, hip-hop and R & B are the biggest musical influences for Caribbean youth and its spawning a new kind of genre.

HR: Yeah. The only thing is that the people I've been speaking to for years, they're not happy with this music at all. And when I say 'they' I'm not talking about younger people.

W: Clearly not.

HR: I'm trying my best because as a musician you know you have to be careful.

W: Why?

HR: Because when we were young and we were listening to James Brown and so on, our elders would say that wasn't good music.

W: Exactly.

HR: I'm trying to keep away from that.

W: Good. I'm glad you're being self-conscious of this because I find that in the Caribbean the older generation critiques and condemns the youth for the very things that their parents critiqued them for. There's a kind of short memory, an amnesia. And I'm glad you're not doing that...So you grew up with James Brown. So did my father.

HR: Yeah. And the music is still as fresh now in my mind as it was then.

Soul Brother #1

W: Let me give you a challenging question. How do you classify David Rudder's music? Is that soca?

HR: I wouldn't call it soca at all.

W: What would you call it?

HR: It is closer to calypso.

W: Yeah, but then Rudder does these Al Jarreau jazz scats, that he makes Trinidadian. Like "International Chantuelle", that brilliant acapella song.

HR: You see, anybody trying to understand Rudder and how he gets all these flavours, needs to remember that David Rudder came out of the soul era, the 60s. To me, David is more of a soul man than he is a calypsonian. Because his culture is calypso, he was born and raised in the culture. But he was also born and raised in the soul culture.

W: You can definitely hear it but which soul singers are you thinking of specifically as David's ancestors?

HR: That Otis Redding. . .

W: And then it was storytelling music too.

HR: In those days we heard the music, we danced to it and we grew with it. And then it is very much a part of David's persona. So David is able to put soul in the calypso. And I believe that is why he has that kind of sound, that is why he can capture people like that. Most of the calypsonians, they have good songs, but they don't have soul in it.

W: I think what I find so ingenious about David's music is that it is both global and fully and undeniably grounded in Trinidad's spirit and culture. It makes sense when you talk about his ancestry - growing up in the Spiritual Baptist yard in Belmont and the popular culture of soul music all around him. The difference is how he translated it into his music; he managed to balance it all.

HR: David didn't stick to any traditional formula of making music. What he did was took his own inspiration, coming from whatever, whether it's Shango, calypso and soul. He did his thing how he felt it. And now David alone has that sound. It's like a new thing. David sings with soul.

W: A lotta soul.

HR: He doesn't just shout like some of the kids; he sings and he holds out his notes.

W: Yeah, clear vocal training.

HR: And he can do it with bacchanal type music, breakaway music. He does it with any kind of music. That sets David apart from everybody else.

W: Actually, I think there are other people who display fantastic vocal training in their songs. To me, what sets David apart is the spiritual core in his music. What would you say about the spirituality especially someone who participates in this cultivation of spirit.

HR: I happen to think that's all part of the soul. If you listen to the American music in the late 60s.

W: And the blues. . .

HR: It's all soul. Soul meaning that feeling. I can hear it 'cos I grew up in the same time. You can't sing a David Rudder song if you don't have soul. It's like singing Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder. When Stevie Wonder sings "Ave Maria" I don't want to hear anybody else sing that.

W: Never again. Stevie's a musical genius. There's no one who can trill like him. There's no voice as soulful as his.

HR: The soul, it doesn't have to do with the voice or the training, it's strictly spiritual. The people may not know it's soul, but I know it's soul.

W: When you call David's music soul, you're immediately locating him in the African Diaspora.

HR: Could be. You take European classical music and play it with soul, it makes the music soul music. And Stevie Wonder did it with "Ave Maria."

W: And when Aretha sings opera, it's with soul. . . since I've been here this Carnival season, I've been thinking a lot about spirituality and I've been thinking about soca. And I've been writing a bit about the way in which the spirituality of some soca artists are dismissed. A lot of people think it's only wine-up and bacchanal, but there's a spirit of celebration that I feel in some of them.

HR: Well that's just it you know. David's music has not been influenced by the competition. David's music has been influenced by his own sense of the soul.

W: And he also listens to the people.

HR: Yes, yes.

W: I remember hearing an interview with him on the "Resistance" CD, the live album, when he talked about these boys on the corner in Belmont could talk and they don't even know the magic they giving. They are basically feeding him lyrics.

Any Soul in Soca?

W: I want to give someone like Destra some credit. You know Destra's music?

HR: Yes.

W: I've been thinking about her songs a lot, especially her two Carnival anthems, "It's Carnival" and "Bonnie and Clyde", the two that Kernal Roberts [son of Lord Kitchener]. These songs that personify Carnival, especially "Bonnie and Clyde", which is a love song but it's a love song to Carnival itself. I'm really impressed with Destra - I saw her at this fete where she sang "It's Carnival" with Machel and in the middle she stopped and said to the crowd, "Listen, this is not only about bacchanal. This is about the spirit of Carnival." She was just so clear about what the core of her music is and what her responsibility is. She was saying, yes I'm sexy and this is fun and I wine up but I'm also an artist cultivating the spirit. So there's a lot more to some of them than we think.

HR: I don't know. I'm a classically trained musician and I came into the calypso thing naturally. And growing up in that environment, understanding all sorts of technical things about music and listening to soul music, I understand David perfectly. The contemporary artists did not grow up in the soul era and most of them have no classical background. They probably never sang in choirs.

W: Church choirs?

HR: Most of us sang in the school choir so we got an idea of how to sing, how to shape our words and we got an idea of the craft of singing. When I hear Maximus Dan sing, I don't hear that.

W: Maximus is interesting because the quality of his so gruff but a friend said he was on Synergy TV the other day doing an unplugged acoustic set. And you know soca songs are so fast that you often can't appreciate the artist's voice. So this acoustic set slowed down his songs and my friend said that Maximus can hit about four to five octaves. He's actually a pure singer. I wonder if it's the nature of the music that doesn't allow them to showcase their voices enough. And if anyone in the contemporary soca scene has a direct relationship to David, Maximus does. He sings conscious soca, conscious music. The difference is that opposed to the soul era, he comes out of the reggae culture era. That's our lingua franca, the Bob Marley, the Dennis Brown, the Burning Spear. That's our soul. You have his CD?

HR: What I do is try to listen to the radio because if there's something to pick up in the music. . .

W: Has there been any contemporary music that has influenced you?

HR: Not really. Strange enough, there is a female singer from St. Vincent or Antigua I think, I can't remember her name, I consider her to be contemporary. She was so musical, so calypso, she sang with soul.

W: I think that's a very sophisticated and important way to listen to the music. When I read a poem or a piece of creative writing, I'm looking for those things, the musicality, the craft.

HR: That's why I say when you grow up being trained in Rachmaninoff, Handel, and come out into calypso. . .I always tell me people I could go into the studio and record any calypso song without practicing or warming up but I can't do that with any European classical piece. I have to study at least two or three weeks before. That's just technique, that don't have nothing to do with soul.

W: That's true. Point taken - in a lot of contemporary music, not only soca, but especially R & B, which as a genre is just terrible, training has fallen by the wayside. If you could do the little Whitney Houston trill, you're a good singer, but actually it's sometimes a cover-up for weak singing. And I'm taking craft seriously but taking voice lessons and trying to understand what it means to manage breath and have the proper body position to sustain voice.

HR: This is reason why someone like Sparrow has such command when he comes on the stage. It's not the lyrics, it's the voice, the soul. The music now that they're calling soca music has no voice, no soul.

W: Your criticisms are important because the only time that it'll get better is if you critique it and make those kinds of informed statements about it.

HR: I think the music is going to have to change. Just as it changed in 1975-6.

W: You think so? It's too fast.

HR: Iwer George sang a nice song, "Ease the Tension." If Iwer George only slowed that song down it could have been powerful but he sings it so fast you could hardly hear the words.
W: That's true. That's a good point.

HR: To me, this is why the reggae music is so easy to asbsorb. Because it is easy music; when I say it is easy music, it doesn't require this aggressive speed. You could close your eyes, you could rock...

W: And you can listen to the words too.

HR: I understand that dance music is dance music. And because there's no quality, they go fast and hope to cover up.

W: The lack of training. . .What about KMC? And his song "Soul on Fire".

HR: It's a cool little thing. But then again I have to be prejudiced. KMC cannot sing. That's plain. If you take that same song and let a person who has some soul and who could sing sing it, and I would listen to it. He sings out of tune; his voice has no appreciable quality. It's suited to soca because soca doesn't require that.

W: What about Rupee? He's the biggest soca star right now. I don't think he's that great a singer but he's a good writer.

HR: But again, at least he sings in tune and you could get a little soul. I could listen to it. I refuse to listen to any singer who is not singing.

W: What do you think about Destra's voice?

HR: She's alright.

W: What do you think of Denise Belfon?

HR: She's a good performer but her songs don't really say anything to me. What they call soca now depends a lot on performance.

W: What about Machel?

HR: Machel has developed into an explosive, dynamic kind of performer. He has this kind of presence that David and Tambu [from Charlie's Roots] used to have.

W: So which singers in the world move you?

HR: Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles and I started studying jazz about five years ago and I started listening to Sarah Vaughn and Dinah Washington.

W: I love Sarah. Her voice is so sultry, it's as though she could do anything.

HR: And I discovered the soul in the music comes from how you sing. Those singers from that time. Listening to them has helped me with my playing.

DAMN!

I am LOVING this ARTICLE ALREADY...SPEAK the TRUTH my TRINI BROTHA.

Discaplypso (Disco + Calypso)?

HR: Soca music. I began playing calypso music in 1974 professionally. Soca music came in probably in about 1977. A lot of people believe that soca music came from some mixture of Indian influence and so on.

W: Right, with Ras Shorty-I.

HR: Yes. I don't believe that. I believe that soca music came from disco music.

DAMN...ah have to RUN, but I will ABSOLUTELY and POSITIVELY read the REST tonight.

MUDDERWUK!!!

once you heard the likes of timmy and kevin little, it should have been known soca doesn't require vocal talent.

i thought soca was from dominica lol.

you believe anything that will make you happy.

oh yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

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yeah, run some credits nuh.

Good article.

Apart from the slight departure from sanity he took on the origins of Soca...I can't say that I disagree with him. Soca appreciates singing talent...but clearly with successful artists like KMC, Machel, KL et al...singing ability needs not be a premium.

disco+calypso is soca is that what he sayin....CAN ANYONE SHARE SOME FACTS?

Facts???

This de internet dude...every idiot has a platform.

nah freal tho mos ah dem cyar sing atall some ah dem cud hole ah note buh like deh need vocal training or someting..

hold up wasn't it you in backchat that was pushing the whole origin from the indian influence and saying that trinis stole it etc?






Um with regards to the thread title it not a serious pre-requisite, automatically you go to content but then again not even for the really fast songs...Primarily the sound/track/rhythm -->hook then overall sound.

I find he was a bit dismissive of some of the things the interviewer was clearly trying to discussion, but that could be cuz he had no +ve opinion on it and chose to keep his mouth shut like artist spirituality in soca, his refusal to acknowledge this generation's soca as SOCA...tellin me bout Explainer etc....that was soca then this is soca now...thats my only bone to pick with him.

The man is a musician not an artist or entertainer so I can see why he feels how he does about certain topics.

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**Life is short. Too young; too soon. Love everyone!**

be careful of who you pretend to be, you are who you pretend to be - kurt vonnegut

"Mommy, stop waking me up for Kindergarten. You don't see me waking you up for work. You do that because you want to." Ahhh, the joys of parenting :-) - RNH
(too funny) :

Last Week that Bobolee said it was stolen from Dominica.

Spread the truth.

Now it from Disco.

LOL

He still vex his boy was tossed out like a used tampon.

Denial is something else, yes. Some people just love to talk steupidness. How dis man goh claim soca start in 1977 when in start in 1973??? Where was he??? LOL.

Its like that with most popular musical genres, no? You dont need to have vocal talent to be successful in most of these styles.

oh shush.....Shorty got his "idea and inspiration" to create soca from Cadence. So I said t again..............BITE ME!

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