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Thread: Should Soca Artists Go back to Charging for their Songs ?

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    JA Soca Ambassador socapineman is offline
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    Thumbs up Should Soca Artists Go back to Charging for their Songs ?

    Should Soca Artists Go back to Charging for their Songs ?


    I say yes, why not put your music up on Itunes, Google, etc and charge?

    Respect your craft....Clearly....they aint booking 99% of allyuh anyway......it is the same top 6 getting to eat ah food every yearq!

    Too many of us call ourselves fans, yet, refuse to “ put up or shut up “……,

    I feel charging 0.99 cents is well worth it if you want to support the art form for the true fans !


    For or against and why ?
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    JA Soca Ambassador socapineman is offline
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    Oh....on top of the list are DJs.....they love too much Freeness, it aint like they helping these new artists anyway, maybe if they paying for something they like, they will try and " push" it more, at Best, the artists should only make it available to radio Stations, legal or Bootleg.....we have too many of them imo want to Buss it first but don't want to pay, the remaining so call " celebrity DJs" ......!
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    Registered User trinifrombx is offline
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    No, i like the " freeness," plus once it is on youtube, anythere there i taking, let them take it up with Fios who is robbing me every month, stop it, or block it there !



    Socapro, surprise you like this, dont you get like a 1k :free: songs min fron T&T, i cant see you paying a $1 to support this !

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    Repect Our Soca Pioneers Socapro's Avatar Socapro is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by trinifrombx View Post
    No, i like the " freeness," plus once it is on youtube, anythere there i taking, let them take it up with Fios who is robbing me every month, stop it, or block it there !



    Socapro, surprise you like this, dont you get like a 1k :free: songs min fron T&T, i cant see you paying a $1 to support this !
    You obviously don't know me.

    I am an old skool DJ who has been buying and collecting music from since in the 1980's. Over the years I have probably spent 100,000's of $s buying and supporting quality music enough to buy myself a few quality cars.

    I think since the music has been free the quality of the music as well as the quality of DJ's playing the music has generally dropped so I will be quite happy for us to go back to the old days when most DJ's had to pay for their music alongside the public as it will help to raise the quality of the music and the DJ's once again.
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    It is I bhalistix's Avatar bhalistix is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by socapineman View Post
    Should Soca Artists Go back to Charging for their Songs ?


    I say yes, why not put your music up on Itunes, Google, etc and charge?

    Respect your craft....Clearly....they aint booking 99% of allyuh anyway......it is the same top 6 getting to eat ah food everyyear!

    Too many of us call ourselves fans, yet, refuse to put up or shut up ,

    I feel charging 0.99 cents is well worth it if you want to support the art form for the true fans !


    For or against and why ?
    so how does that change the game for the small market artist? doesn't it in essence make it worse for them, the music free and the dj's not playing it, you think that would sudden compel them to buy it and play it?

    i would buy music though!

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    Santiwah Santiwah is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhalistix View Post
    so how does that change the game for the small market artist? doesn't it in essence make it worse for them, the music free and the dj's not playing it, you think that would sudden compel them to buy it and play it?

    i would buy music though!

    i CONCUR... makes sense what you posted above!
    santiwah@icloud.com

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    Santiwah Santiwah is offline
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    The artists could put the music up for sale... but that is no guarantee of anything...
    They could post it to YouTube and not give it away but that may spur ripping the songs off YouTube with poor quality tracks being spread amongst friends. This does not bode well for the artists.
    The people who do the best from what is in play today are the DJ's. They get all the music for free (high quality versions) and they use them all for profit!

    This is a very difficult situation to resolve... easy fixes do not exist. If there was a "Soca Market" that handles Soca from around the World then they could have control of how the music is released and sold (pirates will always get theirs). The problem is too much singularity with each island holding on to their respective small market share.

    It appears that Trinidadians across the major Soca Market(Especially North America) are in charge of the Carnivals and dominate in that regard - they get the majority of the pie because of market share (number of people in Carnival cities). The Trinidad Market also pumps a lot of money into the fetes and competitions where some artists do extremely well.

    To sell or not to sell? Those who are well established and 'in demand' will always 'eah ah food" while the rest will lose their deposit (using an election term).

    I don't have the answer just a lot of questions like most of us in here.
    santiwah@icloud.com

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    JA Soca Ambassador socapineman is offline
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    UThe F
    Quote Originally Posted by bhalistix View Post
    so how does that change the game for the small market artist? doesn't it in essence make it worse for them, the music free and the dj's not playing it, you think that would sudden compel them to buy it and play it?

    i would buy music though!
    Excellent question, thanks for asking......now, I am no expert, but if you would allow me to rant and correct me where you feel I am reaching !


    Socapro said it best, the so call industry..Soca took a major hit due to Piracy and quality of music they are putting out !

    Face it, any and anyone is a music producer or DJ given the technology out there !

    Before I get to your question...this is my overview:

    Each island need to set up a music industry standard or overseers to protect their artists of their products...such as in America you have www.riaa.org

    You try selling a bootleg copy of Taylor Swift Cd at a corner.......you getting locked up !

    They have a strong association !


    Or in Jamaica you have :

    http://ifpi.org/jamaica.php

    Only us allow our products to be pirated, disrespected....water down !



    Also, then they need to know how to get their music online such as Amazon or ITunes !

    iTunes - Working with iTunes - Sell Your Content - Music Provider: FAQs - Apple


    Next, the producers, either the yute in his bedroom on his Mac or a full legit studio with overhead , then they need to work with these associations in each island to safeguard their copyright materials........and how to get it on iTunes ,etc !

    Now to your question,

    How does it change for the smaller markets...first, stop given away their music, get the associations to work with YouTube that anyone uploading your music need permission from the producers and artists and it is up to the associations and YouTube to enforce and remove and violations......the users who are granted permission to post these videos then need to have ...the first line, a link to ITunes, Amazon, etc on where to buy the music.......

    Will freeloaders continue to rob these artists and producers...yes, but now at least you limit it you now have laws and a system in place...further....I would find a way to distort the pitch or something unless you purchasing it from one of the online vendors !

    How would this increase more play by DJs or more visibility of the lesser known artists.....well if you buy any music on iTunes you would know what is trending or what ppl are buying .....so once they establish Soca as a genre then for a true fan of the music like myself...I would click on it or search to see what I like, etc.....


    Now let's say a no name music.. "..chipping " from St Kitts is trending...top seller.....well, if I am a DJ , promoter...more so promoter, I would want to know more about that person, artist, song, etc....what drive a promoter is not nationality, but profits....return on capital !


    If you have the top seller it will not only translate to sales but more AirPlay......bookings, etc !

    This is why we really need legit radio stations .......I know you know...but legit radio stations need to pay the artists/producers of the said music every time it is played on a legit station or a legitimate streaming service!....so everyone in the industry with a quality product IMO would benefit....you see, bootleg radio stations are really hurting the industry, robbing the artists, producers, etc...,,,they, the owners of these bootleg stations are making the money, not the artists !



    We the fanbase that like freeness, supporting these bootleg stations, etc are just as guilty of robbing these artists and producers!

    Re the online free streamers or even the bootleg streamers...well, since most of them are selling ads, next fete, next show....then we need these associations need to come up with a "small sum licensing fee," they need to pay...like a blanket fee that would go to these associations...which filter down to the artists/producers for playing/streaming their music !


    More or less the freeness need to stop !

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    It is I bhalistix's Avatar bhalistix is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santiwah View Post
    The artists could put the music up for sale... but that is no guarantee of anything...
    They could post it to YouTube and not give it away but that may spur ripping the songs off youtube with poor quality tracks being spread amongst friends. This does not bode well for the artists.
    The people who do the best from what is in play today are the DJ's. They get all the music for free (high quality versions) and they use them all for profit!



    This is a very difficult situation to resolve... easy fixes do not exist. If they was a Soca Market that handles Soca from around the World then they could have control of how the music is released and sold (pirates will always get theirs). The problem is too much singularity with each island holding on to their respective small market share.

    It appears that Trinidadians across the major Soca Market are in charge of the Carnivals and dominate in that regard - they get the majority of the pie because of market share (number of people in Carnival cities). The Trinidad Market also pumps a lot of money into the fetes and competitions where some artists do extremely well.

    To sell or not to sell? Who is well established and 'in demand' have a chance the rest will lose their deposit (using an election term).

    I don't have the answer just a lot of questions like most of us in here.
    strong post.

    the 1st bold.

    In Slu all dj must pay a yearly fee to the slu music association and supposedly this money is distributed among the association registered artist. The same also happens with promoter, they must pay a fee to the music association for any event the organize. Does this happen in T&T or any where else.

    I have always argued on this website that soca music biggest problem is does not have a strong recording company, thus an industry. Soca music doesnt have an industry.

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    It is I bhalistix's Avatar bhalistix is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by socapineman View Post
    UThe F

    Excellent question, thanks for asking......now, I am no expert, but if you would allow me to rant and correct me where you feel I am reaching !


    Socapro said it best, the so call industry..Soca took a major hit due to Piracy and quality of music they are putting out !

    Face it, any and anyone is a music producer or DJ given the technology out there !

    Before I get to your question...this is my overview:

    Each island need to set up a music industry standard or overseers to protect their artists of their products...such as in America you have www.riaa.org

    You try selling a bootleg copy of Taylor Swift Cd at a corner.......you getting locked up !

    They have a strong association !


    Or in Jamaica you have :

    Jamaica

    Only us allow our products to be pirated, disrespected....water down !



    Also, then they need to know how to get their music online such as Amazon or ITunes !

    iTunes - Working with iTunes - Sell Your Content - Music Provider: FAQs - Apple


    Next, the producers, either the yute in his bedroom on his Mac or a full legit studio with overhead , then they need to work with these associations in each island to safeguard their copyright materials........and how to get it on iTunes ,etc !

    Now to your question,

    How does it change for the smaller markets...first, stop given away their music, get the associations to work with YouTube that anyone uploading your music need permission from the producers and artists and it is up to the associations and YouTube to enforce and remove and violations......the users who are granted permission to post these videos then need to have ...the first line, a link to ITunes, Amazon, etc on where to buy the music.......

    Will freeloaders continue to rob these artists and producers...yes, but now at least you limit it you now have laws and a system in place...further....I would find a way to distort the pitch or something unless you purchasing it from one of the online vendors !

    How would this increase more play by DJs or more visibility of the lesser known artists.....well if you buy any music on iTunes you would know what is trending or what ppl are buying .....so once they establish Soca as a genre then for a true fan of the music like myself...I would click on it or search to see what I like, etc.....


    Now let's say a no name music.. "..chipping " from St Kitts is trending...top seller.....well, if I am a DJ , promoter...more so promoter, I would want to know more about that person, artist, song, etc....what drive a promoter is not nationality, but profits....return on capital !


    If you have the top seller it will not only translate to sales but more AirPlay......bookings, etc !

    This is why we really need legit radio stations .......I know you know...but legit radio stations need to pay the artists/producers of the said music every time it is played on a legit station or a legitimate streaming service!....so everyone in the industry with a quality product IMO would benefit....you see, bootleg radio stations are really hurting the industry, robbing the artists, producers, etc...,,,they, the owners of these bootleg stations are making the money, not the artists !



    We the fanbase that like freeness, supporting these bootleg stations, etc are just as guilty of robbing these artists and producers!

    Re the online free streamers or even the bootleg streamers...well, since most of them are selling ads, next fete, next show....then we need these associations need to come up with a "small sum licensing fee," they need to pay...like a blanket fee that would go to these associations...which filter down to the artists/producers for playing/streaming their music !


    More or less the freeness need to stop !

    very compelling argument...

    It leaves me with the same question, let me explain. say i am joe soe artist from slu and i have a song the most popular song for 2015 and i max our 5000 downloads, that would not register a bleep on the hits radar because a trini with an avg song would register 10000 downloads. Now if you are arguing that dj would use sales as a indicator to know what songs are popular and buy them, then my song would never be popular hence it would never get downloaded by a dj, hence the promoters wont know my song exist hence i am still left in the same position maybe worse off.

    Like i just mentioned in a previous post, i think the greatest factor in the failure of soca music, and its broader acceptance not just regionally but worldwide is the absence of a solid record label. all the stuff you mentioned in your post would best be handled by a record label/company.

    On a more personal responsibility level i don't understand why artist dont record albums, particularly the smaller artist. say the avg artist does 4 or 5 events per season, and 2 or 3 international show, if you could make your cd available at 5 of these events can you could easily sell a 1000 cd that would easily net you 10000

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    JA Soca Ambassador socapineman is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhalistix View Post
    very compelling argument...

    It leaves me with the same question, let me explain. say i am joe soe artist from slu and i have a song the most popular song for 2015 and i max our 5000 downloads, that would not register a bleep on the hits radar because a trini with an avg song would register 10000 downloads. Now if you are arguing that dj would use sales as a indicator to know what songs are popular and buy them, then my song would never be popular hence it would never get downloaded by a dj, hence the promoters wont know my song exist hence i am still left in the same position maybe worse off.

    Like i just mentioned in a previous post, i think the greatest factor in the failure of soca music, and its broader acceptance not just regionally but worldwide is the absence of a solid record label. all the stuff you mentioned in your post would best be handled by a record label/company.

    On a more personal responsibility level i don't understand why artist dont record albums, particularly the smaller artist. say the avg artist does 4 or 5 events per season, and 2 or 3 international show, if you could make your cd available at 5 of these events can you could easily sell a 1000 cd that would easily net you 10000

    Okay cool......well, i dont know if i would buy into your assumptions. ....meaning, I gave you my assumptions. ...true music fans like myself !

    To your example. ...correct me again if i am wrong.....i dont know or hear too many pop buying fans go .....oh Nikki is Trini ....i am Bajan so i rather buy Rihanna songs over her.....or Lady Gaga because she is born in America!

    In the theory of a true fan to the genre who is going to support it......using myself as an example. ....i highly doubt i would go in ITunes. ....hear Ah Ducking......and say damn.....these Bajans dont like us..dont want us in their island. ..etc.....damn...i just cant buy it !.......will you have narrowed minded ppl like that...bias ppl like that....yes....but for the most part you will have genuine soca loving fans that will buy the song given it is good.


    Note my assumptions. ......good song and a true fan!

    Imo now from reading what you wrote.....then it seems like a defeatist mentality. .......i always said if is is good i would buy it or play it.......

    Again in the current format i am not saying bias Ness doesn't exist, Macklemore and Ryan did their monster hit ..Nothing Can Hold Us down independently. ....you guys just have to say F them we better than them and cut hits......it will get play and they will come knocking at your door.....

    Listen to Bolt and Shellann...their take is as great as American athletes are.....when they go out there they have the mentally that they are the best. ...maybe a mindset adjustment need to be made along with other things i suggested for them to be heard......if we are indeed saying that music fans are bias...then Rap...R&B, Reggae. ....etc would never be as big as it is if we buy into this......wby were they ..and still playing KL hit or in the past...Arrow's hot hot hot.........

    Anyway. ..nothing will get done until we are all United re these associations, putting out a quality product; the artists charging for their music; act professional with contracts...etc.
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    It is I bhalistix's Avatar bhalistix is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by socapineman View Post

    To your example. ...correct me again if i am wrong.....i dont know or hear too many pop buying fans go .....oh Nikki is Trini ....i am Bajan so i rather buy Rihanna songs over her.....or Lady Gaga because she is born in America!
    maybe not in the hip hop and R&B, or pop genre but in the soca genre, hell F-ing YEAH. That has nothing to do with being a true fan or not. Bajan, much like trinis, much like greenz, much like (insert you island here) gravitate to their music first. This has nothing to do with no being a true fan or not its just the music they get expose to first.

    In my example i am simply saying that if a lucian (or from any small island) releases a song to his market, because of the market size his sales numbers will be very low. Where as a T&T artist well see far greater numbers because the the market available to sales.

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    JA Soca Ambassador socapineman is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhalistix View Post
    maybe not in the hip hop and R&B, or pop genre but in the soca genre, hell F-ing YEAH. That has nothing to do with being a true fan or not. Bajan, much like trinis, much like greenz, much like (insert you island here) gravitate to their music first. This has nothing to do with no being a true fan or not its just the music they get expose to first.

    In my example i am simply saying that if a lucian (or from any small island) releases a song to his market, because of the market size his sales numbers will be very low. Where as a T&T artist well see far greater numbers because the the market available to sales.
    Lol......Bro.....you really feel it is that bad...omg...lol !


    I hear u...do u hear me ?

    Meaning what if it was base off i release a song......why should it matter to me if i am a soca fan living in America and i like the tune.....so you saying that assumption is not a better business model......meaning i just purchase it base on liking it ?

    Then size is not an issue. ......it is if you have a hit on your hands or not !

    Well if what you are saying then let's face the facts by the reality. ......since Trinidad is putting out the most soca base on their size......if you using that as the judging mark.......if we break it down by population in % base off the hard numbers. ..then...lol...i dont see a problem then.....if 80% of the crowd is Trinis that supporting the ting...then isnt it not fair that the promoter should book 80% of the artists from there ?


    I think so !

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    JA Soca Ambassador socapineman is offline
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    GIVEN : the quality of songs put out so far this year.....this might be a topic worth revisiting in a sense that the cry should be quality over quantity and should the artists now go back to a business model of charging for their craft?

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    Registered User dedetriniking's Avatar dedetriniking is offline
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    I am not negative about the music as i have about thirty songs on my playlist for the summer and I find them all to be good.

    No other island put out a wider spectrum of quality soca music than the Trinis and this year was no different. From pan tunes "Roxanne" , to clubish "wine and touch", to jam and wine "stush in de bush", to the afro inspired "yah", to the ragga sound of "second chances" to the kind of what can be described as pop singing soca of like "cheers to life" which was dominant more radio friendly sound this year with young up and comers like voice and flippo.....to the songs with the more electronic presence.

    Again I don't think it was an exceptional year but i thought it was a good year....at least for the pace of music i like.

    As for the road march fast paced road songs that genre just seems so shady since clearly the better songs do not get played much on carnival monday and tuesday...i was shocked that machel's song won over say shurwayne's song. It just seem that there is too much politics involved there.

    Overall i was pleased with the music that i heard but the large caveat is that i was not there for carnival and i know that vibe on the ground there can be totally different that what is perceived online. Chutney seems to have fallen off this year.
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