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Thread: SHADOWLINGO Blog - Bones of Contention on the Soca Boat

  1. #46
    Registered Member VINCYPOWA's Avatar VINCYPOWA is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socapro View Post
    Kitchener’s first forays into soca was courtesy of Ed Watson after Kitch had fallen out with anti-soca arranger Art De Coteau in 1977 and needed another top arranger to work on his 1978 album “Melodies of the 21st Century” recorded in the later half of 1977.

    In 1976 and during the T&T 1977 Carnival season Kitchener was one of many older calypsonians who was critical of the new soca music that Shorty, Ed Watson, Maestro and Pelham Goddard were producing but Kitch’s anti-soca stance quickly changed after Ed Watson composed the music for “Sugar Bum Bum” and asked him to the write lyrics for the track while they were recording songs for Kitch’s “Melodies of the 21st Century” album.
    Listen to this Pelham Goddard interview to confirm exactly what caused Kitchener to record his first soca tracks in late 1977.

    Pelham Goddard explains how Shorty came up with the name for Sokah/Soca in 1975


    Pelham describes the advent of soca music, outlining some of the players and factors that had an impact on its emergence. At 3:18 in video Pelham explains how Shorty came up with the name Sokah for the new music meaning the Soul or deeper musical expression of Calypso and it was not American Soul and Calypso as many people mistakenly believe.

    Btw I have most of the soca music on vinyl from the 1970’s which I can refer to confirm recordings dates etc in my soca arguments and I have been clued up like this about soca music and who are the main pioneers responsible since the late 1980’s to early 1990's long before the internet became popular and we started to have soca debates on forums like this.

    You (Seawall) on the other hand according to your recent admission now seem to be trying to acquire most of the 1970’s soca on vinyl so you can start to gain a better understanding of what you have been arguing about all these years and even with that you still don’t seem to be getting any more logical in your arguments.

    For example you don’t seem to be logical enough to recognise the fact that even though Shorty developed his soca beat from the rhythmic fusion he did in “Indrani” he was still free and able to use the beat he developed in future soca track without the need to use East Indian instruments and for all his songs to be a chutney-soca from that point onwards.. Shorty clearly explained the process of what he did to develop the soca beat in a number of his interviews and it is clearly backed up by his music recordings.

    Therefore your continued argument about looking for every song that Shorty did after “Indrani” to be a chutney soca to recognise that Shorty used the soca beat he developed as the main rhythmic engine for his music after “Indrani” is as dumb as arguments as anyone can forward and demonstrates a clear of some sort of mental disability on your part.

    Btw you need to stop coming on this board and making false or misleading statements about Socapro and when you are exposed as lying you are not even man enough to have the decency to apologize.


    LOOK WHO is TALKING about ONE MUST APOLOGIZE for LYING, the PATHOLOGICAL LIAR, who I have EXPOSED too MANY TIMES to COUNT of being NOTHING more than a COMPULSIVE LIAR.

    YES, WE KNOW all about the PHANTOM VINYLS that U have. U even said you're GOING To TRANSFER to MP3. But when I PRESSED U to show the MP3 CONVERSIONS, U MADE UP all KIND of STORIES.

    But of course, I KNEW U were LYING and so I PRESSED on for you to PRODUCED the MP3's. SOME 3 YEARS LATER, U STILL CANNOT PRODUCED the EVIDENCE.

    I saw through your ANTICS from DAY ONE, and that was why I SCHOOLED U every time in our DEBATES. So much SO, LIKE A LITTLE WHINEY CHILD, U PRACTICALLY BEGGED ACTIVE MEMBERS to IGNORE ME. When that did not WORK, U PRETENDED to IGNORE, because I INTIMIDATED U. And so you have been in that STATE from EVER SINCE.

    That said; we have seen this VIDEO of Mr. GOODARD many TIMES OVER. Too bad parts are UNINTELLIGIBLE. Nevertheless, CLEARLY U did not LISTEN KEENLY to what Mr. GOODARD SAID. Moreover, your INABILITY to GRASP ACCURATELY what he said and MEANT shows that your ONLY OBJECTIVE is to DECEIVE in order to SELL your CONCOCTED TRIPE as SCHOLARSHIP, when it is NOTHING more than 3 GRADE WISHFUL THINKING.

    For EXAMPLE. how can SOCA be "THE SOUL OF CALYPSO?"

    JEEZAS MERCY, USE your PHUCKING BRAIN for ONCE and STOP REGURGITATE what GOODARD MAY HAVE said or what SHORTY SAID.

    BE an CRITICAL and INDEPENDENT THINKER for ONCE in your SORRY ASS LIFE.

    Again, does SOCA being the SOUL of CALYPSO makes ANY SENSE to U?

    For CRYING OUR LOUD, CALYPSO has been AROUND SINCE the BEGINNING of the 20th CENTURY, so how the PHUCK can a GENRE created in 1970's be the SOUL of an ART FORM that has its ROOTS DIRECTLY in PHUCKING AFRICA, EH DUMBO?

    JEEZAS, U have such a PEA BRAIN, but you ACT like you're INTELLIGENT, with all that ELOQUENT BULLSHIT, when in FACT U R just PLAIN DUMB.

    I can go on and PROVE that U doh even KNOW what the PHUCK Mr. GOODARD said in that VIDEO, because I have DONE it BEFORE when SCHOOLING U and DEDETRINIQUEEN.

    But that was then and this is NOW...DOH have tIME to REGURGITATE the SAME SHIT over and OVER.

    YUHHHHH SEEEEEEEEE MEEEEEEEEEEEEEe

  2. #47
    Registered User Seawall's Avatar Seawall is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socapro View Post
    The only person giving Shorty sole credit for soca is folks who live in the Twilight Zone like yourself.
    What we are crediting Shorty for is being the first to come with his particular formula that he branded as soca and it is not Shorty's fault that his formula had a major impact and almost everyone else followed his formula while at the same time adding their own twist to it which is only natural and inevitable.

    Kitchener’s first forays into soca was courtesy of Ed Watson after Kitch had fallen out with anti-soca arranger Art De Coteau in 1977 and needed another top arranger to work on his 1978 album “Melodies of the 21st Century” recorded in the latter half of 1977.

    In 1976 and during the T&T 1977 Carnival season Kitchener was one of many older calypsonians who was critical of the new soca music that Shorty, Ed Watson, Maestro and Pelham Goddard were producing but Kitch’s anti-soca stance quickly changed after Ed Watson composed the music for “Sugar Bum Bum” and asked Kitch to the write lyrics for the track while they were recording songs for Kitch’s “Melodies of the 21st Century” album.

    Listen to this Pelham Goddard interview to confirm exactly what caused Kitchener to record his first soca tracks in latter half of 1977. Go to 6:42 in interview to hear Pelham talk about the recording of "Sugar Bum Bum".

    Pelham Goddard explains how Shorty came up with the name for Sokah/Soca in 1975

    Pelham describes the advent of soca music, outlining some of the players and factors that had an impact on its emergence. At 3:18 in video Pelham explains how Shorty came up with the name Sokah for the new music meaning the Soul or deeper musical expression of Calypso and it was not American Soul and Calypso as many people mistakenly believe.

    Btw I have most of the soca music on vinyl from the 1970’s which I can reference to confirm recordings dates etc in my soca arguments and I have been clued up like this about soca music and who are the main pioneers responsible since the late 1980’s to early 1990's long before the internet became popular and we started to have soca debates on forums like this.

    You (Seawall) on the other hand according to your recent admission now seem to be trying to acquire most of the 1970’s soca on vinyl so you can start to gain a better understanding of what you have been arguing about all these years and even with that you still don’t seem to be getting any more logical in your arguments.

    For example you don’t seem to be logical enough to recognise the fact that even though Shorty developed his soca beat from the rhythmic fusion he did in “Indrani” he was still free and able to use the beat he developed in future soca tracks without the need to use East Indian instruments and for all his songs to be chutney-soca from that point onwards. Shorty clearly explained the process of what he did to develop the soca beat in a number of his interviews and it is clearly backed up by his music recordings.

    Therefore your continued argument about looking for every song that Shorty did after “Indrani” to be a chutney soca to recognise that Shorty used the soca beat he developed as the main rhythmic engine for his soca music after “Indrani” is as dumb an argument as I have ever heard and demonstrates a clear case of some sort of mental disability on your part.

    Btw you need to stop coming on this board and making red-herring arguments about what Socapro supposedly said or did not say and when you are exposed as having lied you are not even man enough to have the decency to offer an apology. It this because your lies are deliberate and based on some sort of desperation?
    Please post the songs that borrowed the beat from Indrani. There should be numerous such records from the 70's. And then go to Shadowlingo blog and ansah the man's question about Shadow. Finally, I'm a music lover who collects vinyl. None of the stuff I've been buying has made it to CD. If I don't have something, I can email a British guy with a massive collection and ask for a rip. Before, I could visit my uncle in Queens, but he lost his collection in the super storm Sandy flood years ago. It's good to judge for yourself rather than listen to propaganda.
    "Every onlooker is either a coward or a traitor." — Frantz Fanon

    “If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters.” Frederick Douglass

  3. #48
    Registered User dedetriniking's Avatar dedetriniking is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by VINCYPOWA View Post

    LOOK WHO is TALKING about ONE MUST APOLOGIZE for LYING, the PATHOLOGICAL LIAR, who I have EXPOSED too MANY TIMES to COUNT of being NOTHING more than a COMPULSIVE LIAR.
    YES, WE KNOW all about the PHANTOM VINYLS that U have. U even said you're GOING To TRANSFER to MP3. But when I PRESSED U to show the MP3 CONVERSIONS, U MADE UP all KIND of STORIES.
    But of course, I KNEW U were LYING and so I PRESSED on for you to PRODUCED the MP3's. SOME 3 YEARS LATER, U STILL CANNOT PRODUCED the EVIDENCE.
    I saw through your ANTICS from DAY ONE, and that was why I SCHOOLED U every time in our DEBATES. So much SO, LIKE A LITTLE WHINEY CHILD, U PRACTICALLY BEGGED ACTIVE MEMBERS to IGNORE ME. When that did not WORK, U PRETENDED to IGNORE, because I INTIMIDATED U. And so you have been in that STATE from EVER SINCE.
    That said; we have seen this VIDEO of Mr. GOODARD many TIMES OVER. Too bad parts are UNINTELLIGIBLE. Nevertheless, CLEARLY U did not LISTEN KEENLY to what Mr. GOODARD SAID. Moreover, your INABILITY to GRASP ACCURATELY what he said and MEANT shows that your ONLY OBJECTIVE is to DECEIVE in order to SELL your CONCOCTED TRIPE as SCHOLARSHIP, when it is NOTHING more than 3 GRADE WISHFUL THINKING.

    For EXAMPLE. how can SOCA be "THE SOUL OF CALYPSO?"

    JEEZAS MERCY, USE your PHUCKING BRAIN for ONCE and STOP REGURGITATE what GOODARD MAY HAVE said or what SHORTY SAID.
    BE an CRITICAL and INDEPENDENT THINKER for ONCE in your SORRY ASS LIFE.
    Again, does SOCA being the SOUL of CALYPSO makes ANY SENSE to U?
    For CRYING OUR LOUD, CALYPSO has been AROUND SINCE the BEGINNING of the 20th CENTURY, so how the PHUCK can a GENRE created in 1970's be the SOUL of an ART FORM that has its ROOTS DIRECTLY in PHUCKING AFRICA, EH DUMBO?
    JEEZAS, U have such a PEA BRAIN, but you ACT like you're INTELLIGENT, with all that ELOQUENT BULLSHIT, when in FACT U R just PLAIN DUMB.
    I can go on and PROVE that U doh even KNOW what the PHUCK Mr. GOODARD said in that VIDEO, because I have DONE it BEFORE when SCHOOLING U and DEDETRINIQUEEN.
    But that was then and this is NOW...DOH have tIME to REGURGITATE the SAME SHIT over and OVER.
    YUHHHHH SEEEEEEEEE MEEEEEEEEEEEEEe

    This idiat doh have time but he still writes a thesis.....his usual claptrap where he is asking sane people to believe half-baked, half-arsed theories that he magically pulls out of his bamcee because he never has anything to back up what he says....he wants you to believe his ridiculous howling over the actual words of musical giants like Lord Shorty and Pelham Goddard! Well yes!

    If you don't believe some vincentians have a malady called delusions of grandeur all you have to do is observe this specimen's postings where he annoints himself as a musical genius of sorts....never mind that he does not know anything about the music...cannot distinquish brass from synths...does not know a standard calypso beat or guitar strumming pattern when he hears it...and on and on. This imps bases his theories on wild conjecture and fantasies....even as all evidence is diametrically oppose to his BS.

    This guy was a jackarse yesterday..he is a jackarse today....and as night follows day...he will be a jackarse tomorrow.

    Well yes!
    Socapro likes this.
    I hath 9 and 90 tribulations and nary a one doth concern a wench!

  4. #49
    Repect Our Soca Pioneers Socapro's Avatar Socapro is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seawall View Post
    Please post the songs that borrowed the beat from Indrani. There should be numerous such records from the 70's. And then go to Shadowlingo blog and ansah the man's question about Shadow. Finally, I'm a music lover who collects vinyl. None of the stuff I've been buying has made it to CD. If I don't have something, I can email a British guy with a massive collection and ask for a rip. Before, I could visit my uncle in Queens, but he lost his collection in the super storm Sandy flood years ago. It's good to judge for yourself rather than listen to propaganda.
    Could one person be really this slow?

    Here is one of thousands....

    Ella Andall - Hello Africa (Part 1) (1975; produced & arranged by Lord Shorty)


    Check out some of the songs that came after "Indrani" featured in this thread (Tribute to Lord Shorty aka Ras Shorty-I the Father of Soca Thread) for more examples. There is also an interview with Shorty explaining exactly what he did to develop the soca beat and why the rhythmic fusion/pattern in "Indrani" was the inspiration for that development.

    It’s something that I clearly recognized (i.e. the change of the beat in the music) even before I bought my first Lord Shorty album in 1978 and became a big fan and started collecting soca music.

    Hopefully you are not as slow as you are making yourself out to be and your ears and brain cells are still functional.

    PS:
    I answered both Lawrence Waldron and merepamphleteer regards their Shadow questions on the Shadowlingo Blog over 24 hours ago but my posts still have a message next to them saying "Your comment is awaiting moderation".
    Btw you need to stop trying to order me around especially when you claim not to have time to read some of my replies exposing your regular red-herring arguments (as you did in post #34 of this thread).
    Catch me as Soca PhD Every Saturday 2-4pm GMT
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    email: projampro@yahoo.co.uk

    Hailing from Trinidad & Tobago and very proud of it!!
    Land of Calypso, Steelband, Limbo, Parang, Rapso, Chutney-Soca, Soca, Jamoo, Panjazz and the Biggest, Best & Most Influential Caribbean Carnival in the World with no apology!
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  5. #50
    Repect Our Soca Pioneers Socapro's Avatar Socapro is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by dedetriniking View Post
    This idiat doh have time but he still writes a thesis.....his usual claptrap where he is asking sane people to believe half-baked, half-arsed theories that he magically pulls out of his bamcee because he never has anything to back up what he says....he wants you to believe his ridiculous howling over the actual words of musical giants like Lord Shorty and Pelham Goddard! Well yes!

    If you don't believe some vincentians have a malady called delusions of grandeur all you have to do is observe this specimen's postings where he annoints himself as a musical genius of sorts....never mind that he does not know anything about the music...cannot distinquish brass from synths...does not know a standard calypso beat or guitar strumming pattern when he hears it...and on and on. This imps bases his theories on wild conjecture and fantasies....even as all evidence is diametrically oppose to his BS.

    This guy was a jackarse yesterday..he is a jackarse today....and as night follows day...he will be a jackarse tomorrow.

    Well yes!
    Don't know why that deluded fella still keeps trying to address me.
    Even though you just quoted his post, I still didn't bother wasting my time reading it but I gather from your reply that it was the usual deluded claptrap.

    Like I said, no regrets since I placed that Imps on Ignore since April 2012.
    Catch me as Soca PhD Every Saturday 2-4pm GMT
    On www.GenesisRadio.co.uk (91.6FM);
    Every Tueday 6-8pm & Friday 8-10pm GMT
    On www.HavitLive.co.uk (99.1FM);
    www.facebook.com/socaphd
    email: projampro@yahoo.co.uk

    Hailing from Trinidad & Tobago and very proud of it!!
    Land of Calypso, Steelband, Limbo, Parang, Rapso, Chutney-Soca, Soca, Jamoo, Panjazz and the Biggest, Best & Most Influential Caribbean Carnival in the World with no apology!
    Together We Aspire & Together We Achieve!!

  6. #51
    Repect Our Soca Pioneers Socapro's Avatar Socapro is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. Campbell View Post
    Visualizing him (Shorty) walking around hot ass Trinidad and the Caribbean in a leather trench coat and turtle neck sweater.

    [Isaac Hayes voice]Can you dig it! [Isaac Hayes voice]


    Very funny!

    Click here (Tribute to Lord Shorty aka Ras Shorty-I the Father of Soca Thread) to see how Lord Shorty generally dressed in the 1970's in Trinidad and the Caribbean while he was living up to his "Love Man" image and before he became a christian rasta and altered his name to Ras Shorty-I.
    Catch me as Soca PhD Every Saturday 2-4pm GMT
    On www.GenesisRadio.co.uk (91.6FM);
    Every Tueday 6-8pm & Friday 8-10pm GMT
    On www.HavitLive.co.uk (99.1FM);
    www.facebook.com/socaphd
    email: projampro@yahoo.co.uk

    Hailing from Trinidad & Tobago and very proud of it!!
    Land of Calypso, Steelband, Limbo, Parang, Rapso, Chutney-Soca, Soca, Jamoo, Panjazz and the Biggest, Best & Most Influential Caribbean Carnival in the World with no apology!
    Together We Aspire & Together We Achieve!!

  7. #52
    Registered Member VINCYPOWA's Avatar VINCYPOWA is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by dedetriniking View Post
    This idiat doh have time but he still writes a thesis.....his usual claptrap where he is asking sane people to believe half-baked, half-arsed theories that he magically pulls out of his bamcee because he never has anything to back up what he says....he wants you to believe his ridiculous howling over the actual words of musical giants like Lord Shorty and Pelham Goddard! Well yes!

    If you don't believe some vincentians have a malady called delusions of grandeur all you have to do is observe this specimen's postings where he annoints himself as a musical genius of sorts....never mind that he does not know anything about the music...cannot distinquish brass from synths...does not know a standard calypso beat or guitar strumming pattern when he hears it...and on and on. This imps bases his theories on wild conjecture and fantasies....even as all evidence is diametrically oppose to his BS.

    This guy was a jackarse yesterday..he is a jackarse today....and as night follows day...he will be a jackarse tomorrow.

    Well yes!
    As always, EMPTY NOISE.

    There is no need to respond to the other CLOWN, because clearly he is a NUTCASE.

  8. #53
    Registered User Seawall's Avatar Seawall is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socapro View Post
    Could one person be really this slow?

    Here is one of thousands....

    Ella Andall - Hello Africa (Part 1) (1975; produced & arranged by Lord Shorty)


    Check out some of the songs that came after "Indrani" featured in this thread (Tribute to Lord Shorty aka Ras Shorty-I the Father of Soca Thread) for more examples. There is also an interview with Shorty explaining exactly what he did to develop the soca beat and why the rhythmic fusion/pattern in "Indrani" was the inspiration for that development.

    It’s something that I clearly recognized (i.e. the change of the beat in the music) even before I bought my first Lord Shorty album in 1978 and became a big fan and started collecting soca music.

    Hopefully you are not as slow as you are making yourself out to be and your ears and brain cells are still functional.

    PS:
    I answered both Lawrence Waldron and merepamphleteer regards their Shadow questions on the Shadowlingo Blog over 24 hours ago but my posts still have a message next to them saying "Your comment is awaiting moderation".
    Btw you need to stop trying to order me around especially when you claim not to have time to read some of my replies exposing your regular red-herring arguments (as you did in post #34 of this thread).
    Wow, you come back with an Eddy Grant cover. Maybe this is one of the reasons why Grant said Shorty thanked him for changing the music of T&T.
    "Every onlooker is either a coward or a traitor." — Frantz Fanon

    “If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters.” Frederick Douglass

  9. #54
    Registered User Seawall's Avatar Seawall is offline
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    From another site. Apologies to the original author;
    Dr. Stefan Walcott is a Barbadian pianist, composer and academic who holds a PhD in Cultural Studies from the University of the West Indies

    Snapshot in Soca I – A History of Soca Beginnings | Stefan Walcott
    SNAPSHOT IN SOCA I – A HISTORY OF SOCA BEGINNINGS
    Despite the general agreement that Soca has been around since the seventies, few attempts have been made in looking at Soca through the years. This is not really an earth-shattering observation, as the English -speaking Caribbean tends to always overlook its cultural knowledge, but given the fact that Soca is so old, one would have thought that differences in performance and compositional styles would have been compiled. To me, it is like having a 30 year old child and assuming this how he/she always looked and always was. This blog (these posts of this blog at least) intends to rectify this in Webspace and the ideas here come from my research and can be found in my Caribbean Composers Handbook, which I use in teaching Caribbean music on the Associate Degree programme in music at the Barbados Community College. I am doing this because whether I like it or not, I am kind of an expert here, and also because the Wikipedia article is so damn lousy – Soca music - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. I must say now that this blog is not a complete directory, but it contains some prominent Soca stops and addresses. I will be doing this mostly through YouTube uploads as well, as musicians and people in general have little time for text these days. And besides, I need to put this stuff in some ultra dry academic article first.

    Beginnings- The muddying by Sokah

    The origin of Soca, which is presented as a clean coherent starting point (Machel – What is Soca on YouTube as but one example), is anything but.



    I am going to get into trouble with my Trinidadian friends here, but to state that Ras Shorty/Lord Shorty/Garfield Blackman is the sole innovator of the genre is misleading. I say this because I believe that musical genre NEVER starts at the point of innovation. So, while you might start your style of Bangrasocakaiso Funk on your Akai MPC, it only becomes a genre if your fellow MPCers take it up and use generally the same musical approaches as you. Until that point, your song “Something New,” the Bangrasocakaiso Funk ORIGINAL, will continue to be a novelty at best or a testimony of madness aka “artistic expression” at worst . To make it utterly clear, A GENRE ONLY STARTS WHEN OTHER PEOPLE START DOING IT!!

    I will return to this later, but back to Soca. Specifically, Shorty claims that Soca was a mixture of Calypso and Indian traditional music forms found in Trinidad. This definition more than any causes confusion because despite heavy repetition, not many people can locate where exactly the Indian influence was in what became known as Soca! Shannon Dudley, an academic and a musician threw in the towel (Judging by The Beat 287), noting that the early Indian influence is not discussed much these days. However, I believe though that Shorty VERY MUCH intended Soca to be Sokah, the original name he had for the genre, as can be heard in “Indrani.” Here the Indian and Calypso fusion can be argued for.





    “Indrani” doesn’t sound much like what most people know as Soca and is not looked at as the starting point of Soca, at least not in any academic or Facebook argument I have heard. So where does Shorty as the father of Soca come in to play then? The track that is seen as the beginning of Soca, (in the backward-looking origins story) is Shorty’s “Endless Vibrations.” In this track, Shorty takes out the heavily identifiable or coded Indian instruments and places the rhythms on “Western Instruments.” The end result? It ends up sounding like American Funk/Soul (Guibault Politics of Labelling).




    And there, my friends, we have the muddied beginnings explained–simple?…..Not quite. Check this space for Part II when the genre actually becomes a genre and a guy turns up who people definitely did not take for Grant(ed).
    "Every onlooker is either a coward or a traitor." — Frantz Fanon

    “If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters.” Frederick Douglass

  10. #55
    Registered Member VINCYPOWA's Avatar VINCYPOWA is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seawall View Post
    From another site. Apologies to the original author;
    Dr. Stefan Walcott is a Barbadian pianist, composer and academic who holds a PhD in Cultural Studies from the University of the West Indies

    Snapshot in Soca I – A History of Soca Beginnings | Stefan Walcott
    SNAPSHOT IN SOCA I – A HISTORY OF SOCA BEGINNINGS
    Despite the general agreement that Soca has been around since the seventies, few attempts have been made in looking at Soca through the years. This is not really an earth-shattering observation, as the English -speaking Caribbean tends to always overlook its cultural knowledge, but given the fact that Soca is so old, one would have thought that differences in performance and compositional styles would have been compiled. To me, it is like having a 30 year old child and assuming this how he/she always looked and always was. This blog (these posts of this blog at least) intends to rectify this in Webspace and the ideas here come from my research and can be found in my Caribbean Composers Handbook, which I use in teaching Caribbean music on the Associate Degree programme in music at the Barbados Community College. I am doing this because whether I like it or not, I am kind of an expert here, and also because the Wikipedia article is so damn lousy – Soca music - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. I must say now that this blog is not a complete directory, but it contains some prominent Soca stops and addresses. I will be doing this mostly through YouTube uploads as well, as musicians and people in general have little time for text these days. And besides, I need to put this stuff in some ultra dry academic article first.

    Beginnings- The muddying by Sokah

    The origin of Soca, which is presented as a clean coherent starting point (Machel – What is Soca on YouTube as but one example), is anything but.



    I am going to get into trouble with my Trinidadian friends here, but to state that Ras Shorty/Lord Shorty/Garfield Blackman is the sole innovator of the genre is misleading. I say this because I believe that musical genre NEVER starts at the point of innovation. So, while you might start your style of Bangrasocakaiso Funk on your Akai MPC, it only becomes a genre if your fellow MPCers take it up and use generally the same musical approaches as you. Until that point, your song “Something New,” the Bangrasocakaiso Funk ORIGINAL, will continue to be a novelty at best or a testimony of madness aka “artistic expression” at worst . To make it utterly clear, A GENRE ONLY STARTS WHEN OTHER PEOPLE START DOING IT!!

    I will return to this later, but back to Soca. Specifically, Shorty claims that Soca was a mixture of Calypso and Indian traditional music forms found in Trinidad. This definition more than any causes confusion because despite heavy repetition, not many people can locate where exactly the Indian influence was in what became known as Soca! Shannon Dudley, an academic and a musician threw in the towel (Judging by The Beat 287), noting that the early Indian influence is not discussed much these days. However, I believe though that Shorty VERY MUCH intended Soca to be Sokah, the original name he had for the genre, as can be heard in “Indrani.” Here the Indian and Calypso fusion can be argued for.





    “Indrani” doesn’t sound much like what most people know as Soca and is not looked at as the starting point of Soca, at least not in any academic or Facebook argument I have heard. So where does Shorty as the father of Soca come in to play then? The track that is seen as the beginning of Soca, (in the backward-looking origins story) is Shorty’s “Endless Vibrations.” In this track, Shorty takes out the heavily identifiable or coded Indian instruments and places the rhythms on “Western Instruments.” The end result? It ends up sounding like American Funk/Soul (Guibault Politics of Labelling).




    And there, my friends, we have the muddied beginnings explained–simple?…..Not quite. Check this space for Part II when the genre actually becomes a genre and a guy turns up who people definitely did not take for Grant(ed).
    I REST MY CASE AGAIN, because if you go through the ARCHIVE and READ MY TIRELESS AND INSIGHTFUL CONTRIBUTION to this SUBJECT, U WILL SEE THAT this GENTLEMEN who ACTUALLY has a PHD inlike that DELUSIONAL FART who calls himself SOCAPRO, practically TOUCHED on EVERYTHING I have said about SHORTY, INDRANI and ENDLESS VIBRATION.

    He even mentioned Doherty, who I have quoted many times to show that thos PHANTOM INDIAN RHYTHMS DO NOT EXIST in the music that so-called led to the creation of what we know is SOCA.

    The arguments by these TRAIMATIZED TRINIS are simply based on overt patriotism and INDOCTRINATION

    In other words, there is no CRITICAL or INDEPENDENTHINKING on their part. It is always the same REGURGITATED FART that has been DEBUNKED too many times to count.

    YUHHHHH SEEEE MEEEEE

  11. #56
    Registered User dedetriniking's Avatar dedetriniking is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seawall View Post


    “Indrani” doesn’t sound much like what most people know as Soca and is not looked at as the starting point of Soca, at least not in any academic or Facebook argument I have heard. So where does Shorty as the father of Soca come in to play then? The track that is seen as the beginning of Soca, (in the backward-looking origins story) is Shorty’s “Endless Vibrations.” In this track, Shorty takes out the heavily identifiable or coded Indian instruments and places the rhythms on “Western Instruments.” The end result? It ends up sounding like American Funk/Soul (Guibault Politics of Labelling).

    Reading is fundamental...the good gentlemen is only arguing that from his point of view the identifiable soca sound started with Endless vibrations and not Indrani...he even goes on to repeat that shorty moved from "coded indian instruments to more western instruments".

    What the man is saying here is that from his POV Shorty's new Soca music...the sound.... matured with Endless Vibrations....and i don't think anyone argued that when shorty was experimenting with indian instruments that he completely found what he was looking for then.

    So i don't see any gotcha moment here. The author says the sound was settled with Endless vibrations and that it happened after shorty took indian instruments out of the loop and replaced them with "western" instruments.

    Not much different from what Shorty has said all along
    .
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    Repect Our Soca Pioneers Socapro's Avatar Socapro is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seawall View Post
    Wow, you come back with an Eddy Grant cover. Maybe this is one of the reasons why Grant said Shorty thanked him for changing the music of T&T.
    Shorty thanked Eddy Grant for allowing him to do a soca version of his hit song. Any artist who seeks permission to do a version of another artist song and gets that permission will obviously say thank you, which is what Shorty did as it is the gentlemanly thing to do.

    Keep in mind that Shorty's soca version of "Hello Africa" was recorded after "Endless Vibrations", "Sweet Music" and "Second Fiddle" which all feature Shorty's definitive soca beat so the soca train was already rolling by the time that Shorty decided he wanted to do a soca version of "Hello Africa" featuring Ella Andall who was a new member of his Vibrations International soca band.
    Also note that the name of Shorty's soca band "Vibrations International" was inspired by Shorty's first massive soca hit "Endless Vibrations".

    I know that you love to play yuh slow but I particularly posted the soca-rised version of Eddy Grant's song (which was a bigger hit in T&T in 1976 than Eddy Grant’s original Afro-funk version was) because I want you to appreciate the beat in the song when compared with the Eddy Grant version. I will post both together now.

    Eddy Grant - Hello Africa


    Ella Andall - Hello Africa (Part 1) (1975; produced & arranged by Lord Shorty)


    Can you hear the difference in the drum beat pattern in both songs? One song has more of a reggae style beat while the other has what Shorty branded as the soca beat. Only a fool who does not know music or someone who has too much wax in their ears can't hear the clear difference in the drum-beat pattern.

    Well that drum beat pattern which Shorty branded as the soca beat is what he developed from his Calypso and East Indian music fusion experiments by transferring the rhythmic vibration created from the rhythmic fusion he created in "Indrani" and similar fusion songs on his "Love Man" album to the conventional drum kit, triangle and guitar as Shorty explained in his interviews.
    Here is an interview with Ras Shorty I in which he explains exactly how he developed the Sokah/Soca beat.

    G.B.T.V. CultureShare 1997 Interviw with Ras Shorty-I


    Listen to the Shorty interview above in which he explained exactly what he did and then listen to one of the many songs from Shorty’s “Love Man” album below with the same rhythmic fusion that led to Shorty introducing the beat as the standard beat for the new modern brand of calypso music that he was trying to create which he finally christened as Sokah/Soca in 1975 just as Pelham Goddard explained in his interview which I posted higher up in this thread.

    Lord Shorty - Call of Carnival (from album "The Loveman" 1973/74)


    From 1973 onwards after Shorty introduced the change of beat as a standard trait in his new brand of calypso music, literally thousands of soca songs were released with that same soca beat which was adopted and spread by the likes of Ed Watson, Maestro, Pelham Goddard and others as standard in their own brand of soca music.
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    Registered User dedetriniking's Avatar dedetriniking is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seawall View Post


    ........ To make it utterly clear, A GENRE ONLY STARTS WHEN OTHER PEOPLE START DOING IT!!
    Btw Seawall you might want to put this statement on repeat for your pardna the vincentian imps. I have been trying to teach this very fact to him i.e. when he reaches out to grasp fame and fortune for SVG by claiming "coming high" as the first ragga soca song...that he must be able to point to a flood of similar songs thereafter. Of course the imps cannot do that which makes his claim just more claptrap from the delusional vincentians.

    It is exactly the opposite for Shorty because that definitive soca beat that he introduced to the world which was later married to a distinctive bass playing rhythm became the signature characteristcs of hundreds of songs....all the way up to today.
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    Repect Our Soca Pioneers Socapro's Avatar Socapro is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by dedetriniking View Post
    Btw Seawall you might want to put this statement on repeat for your pardna the vincentian imps. I have been trying to teach this very fact to him i.e. when he reaches out to grasp fame and fortune for SVG by claiming "coming high" as the first ragga soca song...that he must be able to point to a flood of similar songs thereafter. Of course the imps cannot do that which makes his claim just more claptrap from the delusional vincentians.

    It is exactly the opposite for Shorty because that definitive soca beat that he introduced to the world which was later married to a distinctive bass playing rhythm became the signature characteristcs of hundreds of songs....all the way up to today.
    This is why people like you and I sit at the front of the soca class while slower students like Seawall sit at the back and will never understand what is so obvious and easy to understand.

    Seawall and the likes are stuck in a time warp at "Indrani" (1972/73) and fail to realise that Shorty's music was continually evolving during the 70''s but "Indrani" was indeed the starting point and inspiration for him changing the beat in his music from the traditional calypso beat.

    One can even argue that Shorty's 1966 single "Indian Singers" was the starting point for the rhythmic change that Shorty introduced but since that original Calypso and East Indian music fusion song was not a massive hit like "Indrani was , “Indrani” was indeed the track that really inspired Shorty to change the rhythmic pattern in his music just as he said.

    It was a change that the majority of musicians in T&T copied and followed even though top old skool calypso musicians like Art De Coteau initially resisted the change.

    I regard Shorty as a cultural hero because at the turn of the 1970's the talk in Trinidad was that Calypso was on its dying bed but due to the success of what Shorty succeeded at introducing which thousands of others followed, Calypso got the musical injection that it needed to kept it alive, healthy and kicking to this day.

    This is why I created this Tribute Thread (Tribute to Lord Shorty aka Ras Shorty-I the Father of Soca Thread) and will continue to update it with more information on Shorty's life and music.
    Catch me as Soca PhD Every Saturday 2-4pm GMT
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    email: projampro@yahoo.co.uk

    Hailing from Trinidad & Tobago and very proud of it!!
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    Registered Member VINCYPOWA's Avatar VINCYPOWA is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by dedetriniking View Post
    Btw Seawall you might want to put this statement on repeat for your pardna the vincentian imps. I have been trying to teach this very fact to him i.e. when he reaches out to grasp fame and fortune for SVG by claiming "coming high" as the first ragga soca song...that he must be able to point to a flood of similar songs thereafter. Of course the imps cannot do that which makes his claim just more claptrap from the delusional vincentians.

    It is exactly the opposite for Shorty because that definitive soca beat that he introduced to the world which was later married to a distinctive bass playing rhythm became the signature characteristcs of hundreds of songs....all the way up to today.
    SMH

    YOUR IDIOCY KNOWS NO BOUNDS, and so I will SCHOOL U ONCE MORE.

    As we are now seeing, every INTELLIGENT and SCHOLARLY person has basically AGREED with the PREMISES of my MANY SOUND PRESENTATIONS OVER the YEARS on the claim of Shorty being the SOLE CREATOR of SOCA MUSIC, thus REFUTING THE FART that Trinidad is the creator and inventor of soca music.

    That said; UNBEKNOWNST to U, your IGNORANCE and your 9 year OBSESSION of TRYING to PROVE ME WRONG, which you have FAILED at MISERABLY, has led you to HIGHLIGHT a COMMENT that LITERALLY DEBUNK EVERYTHING said about what Trinidad CREATED.

    IF U WANT ME TO SCHOOL U on that TRUTH, I am more than WILLING to do it AGAIN for OLD TIME SAKE.

    That said; when your VOICE of CREDIBILITY is SOCA-AMATEUR, the same person U have been CHEERING for, with your POM POMS HIGH in the SKY, as if he RIDES your BAMSEE on a REGULAR, I can do nothing else but smile, because both you and him are TWO PEAS in a POD.

    YUHHH SEEEEE MEEEEEE

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