I going and study or go in my bed, IMIX gettin too predictable now.

good night peeps

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GREATNESS IS ALL I KNOW

Let’s be realistic folks, unless we can hear the calypso recordings that Shorty did with Lord Tokyo from Dominica in 1969, we cannot deduce that these recordings had any influence on Shorty’s creation of Soca years later between 1973 and 1974.

And as far as I know the only cadence-lypo song that Shorty composed and recorded in 1976 called "E Pete" was done after Shorty had already recorded “Endless Vibrations” his first signature soca track in 1974 and these have no connection with any of the songs he recorded with Lord Tokyo in 1969.
It is also important to note that soca and cadence-lypso especially in their early life in the 70's were entirely different music genres even though they both had the same common mother calypso.

The only way to confirm if this theory of the Dominican influence is true is to hear the recordings that Shorty did with Lord Tokyo in 1969.

What I know for a fact is that while growing up in Trinidad I have personally never heard the recordings that Shorty did with Lord Tokyo nor have I heard them since mainly because the songs were never hits in T&T and never got much radio air play if any.

I have also tried to get hold of these recordings that Shorty did with Lord Tokyo in 1969 and no one that I know in Trinidad can help and I do have some good back in time music connections in Trinidad.
Hopefully someone in Dominica can locate these recordings that Shorty did with Lord Tokyo and can post them so we can hear what they sound like to see if we can seriously deduce that Shorty had a Dominican influence as part of his soca formula.

As things stands the Dominican influence is pure speculation but I am willing to be swayed if someone can locate and post these Lord Tokyo and Lord Shorty collaboration recordings from 1969.

What were the name of the songs and how many songs did Shorty and Lord Tokyo do together? Can anyone help?

Bless

__________________

Catch me as Soca PhD Every Saturday 2-4pm GMT
On www.GenesisRadio.co.uk (91.6FM);
Every Tueday 6-8pm & Friday 8-10pm GMT
On www.HavitLive.co.uk (99.1FM);
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email: projampro@yahoo.co.uk

Hailing from Trinidad & Tobago and very proud of it!!
Land of Calypso, Steelband, Limbo, Parang, Rapso, Chutney-Soca, Soca, Jamoo, Panjazz and the Biggest, Best & Most Influential Caribbean Carnival in the World with no apology!
Together We Aspire & Together We Achieve!!

win dis challenge first den you might get your wish...doh forget is Shorty dat calling it Soca and i only accepted de boom boom pause as indian cause dais what all you say ... I know enough music to show you otherwise but as i say if de man in trini with indian so i go give de boom boom pause to tassa...

Look like de guyanese losing steam .....

Man its all good....I love soca and have no issues with any artists from there ...well maybe Bunji and some of the nonsense he call soca ...lol.....all I was saying was that they should mention them....clearly Ras went there and to some degree it help shape what he call soca...yes,no ? I am not taking anything away from Ras ....just wanted that to be stated.

That sentence I've highlighted in red is pure speculation unless we can hear the original recordings that Shorty did with Lord Tokyo in 1969 to confirm if they had any similarities structure wise to what he did in 1974 with "Endless Vibrations".

I would dearly like someone from Dominica to post these recordings that Shorty did with Lord Tokyo in 1969 as no one I know in Trinidad as a music collector has been able to locate them. The songs whatever they were were never hits in Trinidad.

__________________

Catch me as Soca PhD Every Saturday 2-4pm GMT
On www.GenesisRadio.co.uk (91.6FM);
Every Tueday 6-8pm & Friday 8-10pm GMT
On www.HavitLive.co.uk (99.1FM);
www.facebook.com/socaphd
email: projampro@yahoo.co.uk

Hailing from Trinidad & Tobago and very proud of it!!
Land of Calypso, Steelband, Limbo, Parang, Rapso, Chutney-Soca, Soca, Jamoo, Panjazz and the Biggest, Best & Most Influential Caribbean Carnival in the World with no apology!
Together We Aspire & Together We Achieve!!

Ok, cool....then let's call it speculation.....I still don't follow you, He did other songs with other artists from there..right, so it was always changing until he got it to the format that he wanted , all I am saying ....relating to the video or the history books.....shouldn't we not also give credit to a few artists / composers from Dominica ?


Bossman I am not on any kick of discrediting anything Ras Shorty did please do understand that.

What you guys need to understand and acknowledge is that Shorty's musical experiments and progression towards his soca formula in 1974 is clearly documented in all the recordings he did between 1970 and 1974 and there is no evidence that he incorporated any Dominican influence into his recordings apart from "E Pete" in 1976 which was recorded after he had already established his soca formula.
“E Pete” is clearly a cadence-lypso and not a soca track.
Please note that cadence-lypso and soca are two different music genres entirely but they both have the same common mother calypso.

Until recorded evidence can be presented to show a clear Dominican influence in Shorty’s music prior to 1974 I think that Shorty's account of what led him to his final soca formula is dead accurate and cannot sanely be disputed.
Until we can hear evidence of a Dominican influence in Shorty's music prior to 1974 it is all mere speculation.
What we have clear recorded evidence of prior to 1974 in Shorty's music is the East Indian influence. In fact Shorty recorded an entire album experimenting with the calypso and East Indian music fusion.

__________________

Catch me as Soca PhD Every Saturday 2-4pm GMT
On www.GenesisRadio.co.uk (91.6FM);
Every Tueday 6-8pm & Friday 8-10pm GMT
On www.HavitLive.co.uk (99.1FM);
www.facebook.com/socaphd
email: projampro@yahoo.co.uk

Hailing from Trinidad & Tobago and very proud of it!!
Land of Calypso, Steelband, Limbo, Parang, Rapso, Chutney-Soca, Soca, Jamoo, Panjazz and the Biggest, Best & Most Influential Caribbean Carnival in the World with no apology!
Together We Aspire & Together We Achieve!!

So what he did with Lord Tokyo in what 1970 call ou petit what was that then ? Wasn't that a mix of calypso and cadense which was the early form of soca...yes ,no ?

Early Soca was basically Calypso fused with an East Indian rhythm pattern but with the Indian instruments removed (because of the initial public outcry) and other musical flavours like soul, funk, latin, etc added to help bring about commercial acceptance.

We are basically speculating regards a cadence-lypso influence on Shorty in his creation of Soca as I haven't heard any recordings from Shorty pre-1974 to confirm that influence in his music but there is no doubt that a cadence influence was added to Soca by musicians like Ed Watson shortly after Soca was developed.

I don't know the name of the song that Shorty did with Lord Tokyo in 1969/1970 nor have I ever heard it to confirm how it sounded structure wise.

What I do know and have evidence for was that Shorty recorded the cadence-lypso track "E Pete" in late 1975/early 1976 which was included on his 1976 album "Sweet Music".

Lord Shorty - E Pete (1976)


This song was of course recorded after Shorty had already arrived at his soca formula demonstrated in his earlier soca hit "Endless Vibrations" from 1974.

Lord Shorty - Endless Vibrations (1974)



What we really need to do to end all the speculation is to actually hear the recording(s) that Shorty did with Lord Tokyo in 1969/1970.

I honestly wish someone can produce/post these Lord Shorty/Lord Tokyo recordings.

__________________

Catch me as Soca PhD Every Saturday 2-4pm GMT
On www.GenesisRadio.co.uk (91.6FM);
Every Tueday 6-8pm & Friday 8-10pm GMT
On www.HavitLive.co.uk (99.1FM);
www.facebook.com/socaphd
email: projampro@yahoo.co.uk

Hailing from Trinidad & Tobago and very proud of it!!
Land of Calypso, Steelband, Limbo, Parang, Rapso, Chutney-Soca, Soca, Jamoo, Panjazz and the Biggest, Best & Most Influential Caribbean Carnival in the World with no apology!
Together We Aspire & Together We Achieve!!

Dede,

I have Watson's albums from the period, he was into r&b at the time. Even if you look at Rudder's albums (many of which were arranged by Goddard), this so called Indo influenced did not standout. Soca absorbed influences from cadence, funk, soul, Afro latin, and East Indian melodies. The Indo influence was (because the music has since changed) largely melodic. Soca has a 4 to the floor beat, which has its origins in Black music. We even dance to soca the same way that many Africans dance to their music....and its because the beat has not strayed too far from its origins.

__________________

"Every onlooker is either a coward or a traitor." — Frantz Fanon

'It was 'Maestro' who wrote "Endless Vibration" for 'Shorty'. He used to write all those songs for 'Shorty' and he also wrote for 'Sparrow'. "Sa Sa Ya" and all those songs were written by 'Maestro'. Plenty people wrote for 'Sparrow'." — Winsford 'Joker' Devine

A good over view of Watson's music can be found on this compilation of songs voiced by Singing Diane. Notice that the man was into funk, disco, Afropop, and jazz. Every true soca aficionado should have it. Too many people just talk and don't consume the music.

Then & Now by Singing Diane on MP3 and WAV at Juno Download

__________________

"Every onlooker is either a coward or a traitor." — Frantz Fanon

'It was 'Maestro' who wrote "Endless Vibration" for 'Shorty'. He used to write all those songs for 'Shorty' and he also wrote for 'Sparrow'. "Sa Sa Ya" and all those songs were written by 'Maestro'. Plenty people wrote for 'Sparrow'." — Winsford 'Joker' Devine

That album doesn't give you the full range of Ed Watson's versatility.
Don't forget a lot of Kitchener's and Merchant's early soca songs were also arranged by Ed Watson and also note that “Indrani” as well as most of the tracks on Shorty's late 1973/early 1974 “Love Man” album with the then controversial Calypso and East Indian music fusions were also arranged by Ed Watson.
As a soca arranger Ed Watson was very versatile.

Here is one of the songs from Shorty's 1974 "Love Man" album that Ed Watson arranged.

Lord Shorty - Jouvert Morning (1974)

__________________

Catch me as Soca PhD Every Saturday 2-4pm GMT
On www.GenesisRadio.co.uk (91.6FM);
Every Tueday 6-8pm & Friday 8-10pm GMT
On www.HavitLive.co.uk (99.1FM);
www.facebook.com/socaphd
email: projampro@yahoo.co.uk

Hailing from Trinidad & Tobago and very proud of it!!
Land of Calypso, Steelband, Limbo, Parang, Rapso, Chutney-Soca, Soca, Jamoo, Panjazz and the Biggest, Best & Most Influential Caribbean Carnival in the World with no apology!
Together We Aspire & Together We Achieve!!

The difference between Cameroonian makassi and soca is that the beat in makossa is played on the hi hats, unlike soca. however, the beats are very similar. Of course, makassi was heavily influenced by zouk. Just about every album I have has members of kassav on them.











Some modern highlife.

__________________

"Every onlooker is either a coward or a traitor." — Frantz Fanon

'It was 'Maestro' who wrote "Endless Vibration" for 'Shorty'. He used to write all those songs for 'Shorty' and he also wrote for 'Sparrow'. "Sa Sa Ya" and all those songs were written by 'Maestro'. Plenty people wrote for 'Sparrow'." — Winsford 'Joker' Devine

U R on POINT as always.

I wish someone can post the names of the musicians on CHARLIE'S ROOTS because I cannot FIND the INTERVIEW that one of them did in either the VIRGIN ISLANDS or the BAHAMAS where he SPEAKS EXTENSIVELY on the BAND, RUDDER and SOCA MUSIC.

The MAN doesn't MENTION ANYTHING about INDIAN RIDDIMS not ONCE. He SPOKE EXTENSIVELY about SOUL MUSIC from AMERICA. He even said that the way RUDDER sings is because of his EXPOSURE to SOUL and FUNK MUSIC because that is what was DOMINATING the AIRWAVES in Trinidad.

Again, anyone who LISTENS to "ENDLESS VIBRATION" and says that they HEARING so-called INDIAN RHYTHMS is TRULY an IDIOT.

Again, let me repost a review of the song.

I REST MY CASE, again.

check dis out...