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Thread: NEO & LORD SALT

  1. #1
    be like water DeSocaPrincess's Avatar DeSocaPrincess is offline
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    NEO & LORD SALT

    http://www.trinisoca.com/Muhammad_Ab.../30040514.html

    there is soooo much to this so ah thought you two could check it out and give me your thoughts
    Recognize The ORIGIONAL,
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  2. #2
    Take Kaiso In Yuh Mouth!! lordsalt is offline
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    the voice of MAB speaks for many mas makers. i agree w/ some of the points made in terms of keeping the culture alive by having classes to teach the children 2 dance sailor mas, move in their costumes etc. etc......same could be done for teens/adults as well that never learned.

    he mentioned children mas lookin much betta than the adults which in a way i could agree. i mean it only makes sense the kids outfits are more presentable cuz nobody wanna c the youths playin mas 1/2 naked, so there4 their costumes would be more elaborate. howeva, long time adult mas was more intricate until the last 10 years or so when it became the 'beads and bikini' era. i've seen a few mas outfits this year from a few bands and have 2 admit it lookin nice. a bit of the old mixed in w/ new. we'll see...

    salty

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    be like water DeSocaPrincess's Avatar DeSocaPrincess is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordsalt
    the voice of MAB speaks for many mas makers. i agree w/ some of the points made in terms of keeping the culture alive by having classes to teach the children 2 dance sailor mas, move in their costumes etc. etc......same could be done for teens/adults as well that never learned.

    he mentioned children mas lookin much betta than the adults which in a way i could agree. i mean it only makes sense the kids outfits are more presentable cuz nobody wanna c the youths playin mas 1/2 naked, so there4 their costumes would be more elaborate. howeva, long time adult mas was more intricate until the last 10 years or so when it became the 'beads and bikini' era. i've seen a few mas outfits this year from a few bands and have 2 admit it lookin nice. a bit of the old mixed in w/ new. we'll see...

    salty
    Agreed but ah really want to sit down with this and get a discussion going to see how to bring a lot of this about because I also feel in most regards the "consumer" dictates the product(mas) as well. and as a part of Hawks this is something we are always going over as we gear up for the next season.
    Recognize The ORIGIONAL,
    There Can Be Only ONE!

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    Take Kaiso In Yuh Mouth!! lordsalt is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeSocaPrincess
    Agreed but ah really want to sit down with this and get a discussion going to see how to bring a lot of this about because I also feel in most regards the "consumer" dictates the product(mas) as well. and as a part of Hawks this is something we are always going over as we gear up for the next season.
    well i'm not a pro 2 have big discussions on mas, but i don't think i fully agree 100% w/ the statement bolded. in terms of the consumer (the masquerader), i'm not sure how much they can dictate or influence the costumes they want a designer to produce. from all the ppl i know that play mas anywhere they just pretty much browse what the designers put on display near carnival time. if they don't like a particular costume from 1 band/section, they just move on to the next until they find the right costume for them. not sure how many actually go str8 2 the designer and tell them they should of done xyz.

    howeva, i could be wrong. does hawks get a lot of feedback from their clients?

    salty

  5. #5
    THE MAS ASSASSIN. NEO ONE's Avatar NEO ONE is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeSocaPrincess
    Agreed but ah really want to sit down with this and get a discussion going to see how to bring a lot of this about because I also feel in most regards the "consumer" dictates the product(mas) as well. and as a part of Hawks this is something we are always going over as we gear up for the next season.


    DISCUSSION IS ALWAYS GOING ON THE PROBLEM IS THE PEOPLE ON THE TOP OF THE PILE RIGHT NOW.
    THEY TELL YOU THE CONSUMERS WANT IT, BUT THATS A LIE THESE CONSUMERS DONT KNOW WHAT THEY WANT, THEY JUST BUY WHAT THEY ARE GIVEN.
    THE CULTURE AND THE ART FORM GETS ZERO RESPECT FROM THE BAND LEADERS.ITS LIKE HE SAID SOME OF THES DESIGNERS CANT EVEN MAKE A MAS BUT DEY HAVE BIG NAME , THEN THAT CREATIVE IGNORANCE IS SOLD TO AND BOUGHT BY THE IGNORANT MASSES WHO PLAY DEY SELF ON CARNIVAL DAY.
    I LIKE WHAST HE SAID HERE


    People throw away Mas'
    Staff Article
    Interview Recorded: April 24, 2005
    Posted: April 30, 2005


    We have a natural talent here, but if we do not develop it, we will lose it. When you talk about culture, you talk about Mas'. A lot of fellahs out there are coming in your Mas' camp to build Mas', but they do not know anything about building Mas'. When you see these fellahs come out there and start to build Mas', we are shocked, and they go on to be famous Mas' men. Anybody could make two piece and beads Mas'.

    The year when 'Poison' played 'Flowers', I was excited, so I went to see 'Flowers'. But, I didn't see any flowers; I saw only one section that had flowers. I remembered that band, and this is not good for the kids. If you are playing butterflies, everybody knows what a butterfly looks like, so if you say you playing butterfly and you put some women in black and silver, and some in gold and white, not even a wing, how could you say that is a butterfly? Look at Minshall when he did 'Butterfly'. It was crazy with everybody in the garden and it looked so real, I admired him. When he brought out 'Jungle Fever', I did some work with him. I find his Mas' is so creative, but the people still do not understand it. Most people throw away his Mas' and stay in this body suit. If you really watch what he could do. For example he will take a box and he will create a stage with it or he will make a costume with it, and when you see it coming down, you will see exactly what he wants by your movements. Yet these people throw that away and go for the little black two-piece.

    Coming back to Poison, I do not know if it is a myth or a cult, but like everybody just wants to go with them just to say they played Mas' with Poison. For Carnival, do you know how long they stayed in the Savannah? You have to control the bands. Look at Panorama, there was a time when you couldn't go with one hundred and one players it was one hundred players. Now I think it is either one hundred and fifteen or one hundred and twenty. Let's say Desperadoes has two hundred players, what happens to the other bands? What they have done is make it one hundred and twenty and if you have one hundred and twenty one, the band gets disqualified, and that is because Pan Trinbago is an organization and so is NCBA. You must have rules, and this is what you need to get these people functioning. Another thing is a sponsor; they are hard to get for a band. I could agree with the sponsors, because for them, it is what I could do for you or what you could do for me.

    Continue...
    THIS IS SOME TRUE STUFF HE TALKING HERE
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  6. #6
    be like water DeSocaPrincess's Avatar DeSocaPrincess is offline
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    neo talk it again babes.

    salty : yes we do take feed back "in to consideration" but we do come up with a theme and try to bring "our vision" about with as little comprimise as possible.

    however as a newer member i would like to see some ole' skool mas wid a lil twist. but we will see fuh this year

    and neo when we meet man we have to talk. i have much 2 learn
    Recognize The ORIGIONAL,
    There Can Be Only ONE!

  7. #7
    Registered User BrianW's Avatar BrianW is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEO ONE
    DISCUSSION IS ALWAYS GOING ON THE PROBLEM IS THE PEOPLE ON THE TOP OF THE PILE RIGHT NOW.
    THEY TELL YOU THE CONSUMERS WANT IT, BUT THATS A LIE THESE CONSUMERS DONT KNOW WHAT THEY WANT, THEY JUST BUY WHAT THEY ARE GIVEN.
    THE CULTURE AND THE ART FORM GETS ZERO RESPECT FROM THE BAND LEADERS.ITS LIKE HE SAID SOME OF THES DESIGNERS CANT EVEN MAKE A MAS BUT DEY HAVE BIG NAME , THEN THAT CREATIVE IGNORANCE IS SOLD TO AND BOUGHT BY THE IGNORANT MASSES WHO PLAY DEY SELF ON CARNIVAL DAY.
    I LIKE WHAST HE SAID HERE
    This is the result when the artist is not included. It seems quite apparent that anybody can call themselves a designer these days. What irks me is that some can even draw properly yet alone manage form and color. There is and has been a template onto which all mas costumes must now fit into. It has been steadly creeping up since the 80's. The bath suite is not wrong, but it should not dictate the costume and its aesthetics with respect to creativity. This of course is where the artist comes into play, knowing full well the mechanics of the human form and its corelation to elements of art and design. Minshall was a master of this, but he was not alone as it was the Calaloo Company of Artists and Desingers that were also to credit for transforming the face of Trnidad Carnival and taking it yet to another plateau of artistic and personal expression.

    Some of Posion's costumes are not bad at all, however, some are so repetitious its insane. Some bands' themes are successfull, others have you wondering really hard. In the end its really the mas palyers themselves who should dictate the direction of Trinidad Carnival with regards to creativity and innovation. But this too is tied into education on Trinidad's 250 years of Carnival.

    Not many know about the Jab Molassie, the Gownmen or even the Pai Banan. Do many know that when Kitchner sung about the Pan clashes that they were in fact true and represented a period of Trinidad Carnival's violent history. There was a vulgar part of Trinidad Carnival termed the "Jamet Carnivals" 1838-1900's a time that was marked with vulgarity and violence. But mirrored to that it was also the one of the most creative periods of Carnival. Giving us the Shantwell and the tambo bamboo bands both percusors to the Calyposian and the Steel Pan. As well as many other characters.

    Time will only tell when the Artist makes his/return to Carnival and henceforth it shall once again be a another golden age of Trinidad Carnival.

  8. #8
    THE MAS ASSASSIN. NEO ONE's Avatar NEO ONE is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeSocaPrincess
    neo talk it again babes.

    salty : yes we do take feed back "in to consideration" but we do come up with a theme and try to bring "our vision" about with as little comprimise as possible.

    however as a newer member i would like to see some ole' skool mas wid a lil twist. but we will see fuh this year

    and neo when we meet man we have to talk. i have much 2 learn

    FOR REAL PRINCESS WE WILL TALK.
    MASSASSINATION.BLOGSPOT.COM
    MASREPUBLIC.BLOGSPOT.COM

  9. #9
    THE MAS ASSASSIN. NEO ONE's Avatar NEO ONE is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW
    This is the result when the artist is not included. It seems quite apparent that anybody can call themselves a designer these days. What irks me is that some can even draw properly yet alone manage form and color. There is and has been a template onto which all mas costumes must now fit into. It has been steadly creeping up since the 80's. The bath suite is not wrong, but it should not dictate the costume and its aesthetics with respect to creativity. This of course is where the artist comes into play, knowing full well the mechanics of the human form and its corelation to elements of art and design. Minshall was a master of this, but he was not alone as it was the Calaloo Company of Artists and Desingers that were also to credit for transforming the face of Trnidad Carnival and taking it yet to another plateau of artistic and personal expression.

    Some of Posion's costumes are not bad at all, however, some are so repetitious its insane. Some bands' themes are successfull, others have you wondering really hard. In the end its really the mas palyers themselves who should dictate the direction of Trinidad Carnival with regards to creativity and innovation. But this too is tied into education on Trinidad's 250 years of Carnival.

    Not many know about the Jab Molassie, the Gownmen or even the Pai Banan. Do many know that when Kitchner sung about the Pan clashes that they were in fact true and represented a period of Trinidad Carnival's violent history. There was a vulgar part of Trinidad Carnival termed the "Jamet Carnivals" 1838-1900's a time that was marked with vulgarity and violence. But mirrored to that it was also the one of the most creative periods of Carnival. Giving us the Shantwell and the tambo bamboo bands both percusors to the Calyposian and the Steel Pan. As well as many other characters.

    Time will only tell when the Artist makes his/return to Carnival and henceforth it shall once again be a another golden age of Trinidad Carnival.


    WOW MAN YOUR WORDS AER SO TRUE.
    THE ARTIST WILL RETURN TO CARNIVAL ....THIS SAME DEMAND TO OUT SHINE EACH OTHER WITH GLAM AND GLITTER WILL LEAD RIGHT BACK TO THR ART OF MAS. RIGHT NOW THE POT HAS BOILED OVER POISON IN MY OPINION REFLECTS THIS.
    AS FOR THEMES THESE DESIGNERS AND SPECIAL SECTION . PEOPLE DON'T HAVE A CLUE . WHEN YOU CAN NOT EVEN EXPLAIN YOUR THEME, YOUR IN TROUBLE .
    IM GLAD I DID O'LEVEL LITERATURE TO UNDERSTAND THE THEMES OF A STORY OR PLAY OR POEM THESES FOOLS DONT HAVE ONE CLUE.
    MASSASSINATION.BLOGSPOT.COM
    MASREPUBLIC.BLOGSPOT.COM

  10. #10
    Registered User BrianW's Avatar BrianW is offline
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    Posion though not bad at all, is a a stage where they cannot move forward aesthetically. There is only so much that you can do with a bikini in which it is the main focus. But judging from the mas from other bands, it may seem that a bright future is only a few road marches ahead.

    I so hope that our 250 year old Carnival does end up like a big street party where the costume is just the side order. The price of mas also has to be reduced so that more people of T&T can play in their own festival. With the ban on feathers it must have added an unexpected design strain to the designers as most of the costume tends to rely soley on these.

    Our Carnival is too rich and many don't know about its richness. If they did they may understand its allure and importance to ohters who do. For part of the carnival experience is not the music but the fantasy and the splendor that only a costume can bring.

    Neo, if you do get to T&T Carnival we must get together for a chat.

  11. #11
    be like water DeSocaPrincess's Avatar DeSocaPrincess is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW
    Posion though not bad at all, is a a stage where they cannot move forward aesthetically. There is only so much that you can do with a bikini in which it is the main focus. But judging from the mas from other bands, it may seem that a bright future is only a few road marches ahead.

    I so hope that our 250 year old Carnival does end up like a big street party where the costume is just the side order. The price of mas also has to be reduced so that more people of T&T can play in their own festival. With the ban on feathers it must have added an unexpected design strain to the designers as most of the costume tends to rely soley on these.
    Our Carnival is too rich and many don't know about its richness. If they did they may understand its allure and importance to ohters who do. For part of the carnival experience is not the music but the fantasy and the splendor that only a costume can bring.

    Neo, if you do get to T&T Carnival we must get together for a chat.
    babes at first ah wasnt to sure bout you. ( Fadda Neo can tell you even though im a rookie,no nothing but ah have a big heart fuh we ting!) and especially the bolded statement you made is wisdom. why would i have someone pay all this money for a bathingsuit and a bedazzler gun. and doan tell me bout drinks and food long time we would find a vender and have a time. i remember when you saw a band you knew what story they were telling by the mas and not jus de head pc. but the costume was art that you wanted to keep. keep going fadda. rookies like me depend on vets like you Neo & Salty
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  12. #12
    Registered User BrianW's Avatar BrianW is offline
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    The power of the mas has indeed decreased dramatically over the years, moreso with Minshall's absense. But in the heydays of Trinidad Carnival 1970's-1980's you had bandleaders who were dedicated to providing a 'show' via the power and eloquence of mas. Money was not the first piority, it was the culture. We saw this with bands from Stephen Lee Heung, Wayne Barkley, Irvin Mc Williams, Lil Hart, Raoul Garib and of course Peter Minshall. But times have changed and so has the masquerader as in so the power of the mas has diminished to yet but a flicker. But with the resurgance of othesr like Brian MacFarlane and Trini Revellers to name but a few, there is a strong hope that the flame may once again burn bright.

    I long for the return of the days when the specatcle of mas would bring a tear to one's eye, when it would have your heart beat in time with the music while you get gose bumps as the mas is unveiled and revelled in a way you never thought. The visage of Papillion and The Golden Calabash coming down Victoria Sq shall always remain with me, a testament to Carnival's immense power.

  13. #13
    be like water DeSocaPrincess's Avatar DeSocaPrincess is offline
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    we shall see obi wan, we shall see
    Recognize The ORIGIONAL,
    There Can Be Only ONE!

  14. #14
    be like water DeSocaPrincess's Avatar DeSocaPrincess is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeSocaPrincess
    we shall see obi wan, we shall see


    and what im interested in is who will take the charge in this
    Recognize The ORIGIONAL,
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    Registered User BrianW's Avatar BrianW is offline
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    Can't tell you that. A new fresh voice is needed to carry it to another level. But such may just appear like Peter did in 1976 with Paradise Lost without any fanfare and at least expected time.

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